Zones of Control

In what way?

- Ash

~SDC~

I don't think they would. Here's why: There's alreadya potential (as they're called here) cheese tactic built in to the game: even friendly ships can't pass where you ships are. So you can surround any star with 8 scuts to stop people from getting through- a blockade, if you will. So if the Drengin are warring on your favorite pet race you can defend them by surrounding his star with scouts. The Drengin then need to declare war on you too, which they may not.

If you add in a 1 square surrounding ZOC, you seriously mess with and complexify (is that a word?) the pathfinding algy... I just don't think it would e prudent to add this uneeded complexity to the game especially in light of there already being a ZOC of the square where your ship is at.

~SDC~

hell, why not just surround every AI planet with scouts? that way they can't do anything. they're called "cheese tactics" for a reason.

cheers

h

Get a clue... doing that would make them attack you and go to war. You'd most likely lose it having wasted resources on the scouts. If you weren't in a position to lose at that point and had that muchpower (building 300+ scouts being no big thing) then jsut win the ame already.

It's called a strategy game for a reason.

OMG, please try to think before you post.

~SDC~

In most of these space games there is no way to keep enemy ships from going wherever they want, including behind your front lines to any planets in any of your sectors. Because of that, you have to defend every star instead of just the ones on the front lines. There should be a way to keep ships from going to the back of your empire, some kind of penalty for flying through others sectors. I realize ships in space can fly wherever they want but more strategic decisions on the front lines would be nice.

"In most of these space games there is no way to keep enemy ships from going wherever they want, including behind your front lines to any planets in any of your sectors. Because of that, you have to defend every star instead of just the ones on the front lines."

Why? Is the US Army currently not driving through the Iraqi front lines to target the key cities in the centre of Iraq? The idea that a war MUST be fought from the outer borders inward is sloppy tactical thinking.

Also, in this kind of game -- space is vast. Even the combined industrial power of the number of worlds you can control in GalCiv would have no way of producing the number of ships necessary to form an effective border blockade of an interstellar empire. Fact is, such stringent borders as we see on maps are impossible in space.

- Ash

~SDC~

Defense in depth.
That's the only way to do it.
You simply cannot control the borders in space, certainly in 3 dimensions the size is huge. Granted this is 2D, but the same concept applies.

Strategically you have to layer the defense and/or keep it moving to support regions as opposed to locations. Right down to the planetary level.

Intelligence as far as enemy movement is concerned is more important, if you see them on sensors far enough ahead, you can focus your resources.

idunno, a scout costs 20, so even building a ton of them is fairly insignificant. i don't know the AI well enough to know if it would declare war as a result - it seems to base that decision on relative power or whether you're attempting a cultural assault.

anyway, it's not like anyone is going to be testing out the approach. so it's kinda moot.

i was just doing a "reductio ad absurdam" on your idea, no offense was intended. but i guess the tone was kinda snarky - apologies. let's keep this board mellow.

cheers

h

"reductio ad absurdam"

What I want to know is how many people actually know what that is.

- Ash

~SDC~

yeah, i'm pretty pretentious.

it should be absurdum, btw.

cheers

h

OK, I knew what it was, so I was on even footing with you there, but the fact that you can correct the spelling definitely elevates you above me.

- Ash

~SDC~

Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur

~SDC~

"Is the US Army currently not driving through the Iraqi front lines to target the key cities in the centre of Iraq? The idea that a war MUST be fought from the outer borders inward is sloppy tactical thinking."--Quote by Asharak

I agree with you, but quote above is not sound. What Bimbo15 is saying is not about fighting wars from the outside in, but territorial control. The U.S. couldn't simply park it's army 5 miles outside of Baghdad before the war began and then say, Okay, now we'll attack you. As soon as the U.S. crossed the border the war started. This is what Bimbo15 is talking about. The A.I doesn't have to attack border planets first just because a border exists, but if they cross the border and head for the main planets of the empire then that would mean war in reality.

However, we are dealing in interstellar space and the reality would not be the same as on a planet. In space, each system would be it's own border. Think of the Humans in the Sol system. They also have a colony on Alpha Centauri, which is the nearest star. Space is so big that there is no way the Humans could effectively stop any ships traveling between the 4.3 light years between those stars. Therefore each Solar system would probably have it's own defense perimeter around its outermost planet. As for the space between stars, Humans could monitor it with sensors, but anything more would be a total waste of resources. This is why the game shouldn't have borders, except for within a solar system, and the A.I. already respects this cause they can't colonize another planet in a solar system if you already have a colony in that same system.


~SDC~

"Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur"

Hehe. It's either that, or just a pain in the ass.

- Ash

~SDC~

"I agree with you, but quote above is not sound."

You're right, it's not. This is what I get for posting political/military analogies without really thinking about them. Next time, I'll remember that there are people here that are good at dissecting arguments, not just AIs.

Since we agree on the general point, however, let's just let my horrible analogy slide into historical obscurity, shall we?

- Ash

~SDC~

Agh! NO MORE LATIN- I studied it for three years. It's called a DEAD language for a reason!

As to borders, you CAN sorta control them if you're in an isolated cluster and use those spy satellite units effectively to screen and have a mobile enough force. That's what I'm doing in my current game (large galaxy- all bright)... so far so good at Frigate tech level and fighting a two front war... we'll see how it goes though.

had to trade an ARM and a LEG to the freaking Altarians or whoever to get the speed boost trade good, though. But man, at 10 moves a turn, I can have my elite force anywhere before soft targets come under attack.

~SDC~

4 years of latin here...can't remember anything though.

i always make a beeline for that one (gravity accelerators - you need controlled gravity tech) and buy it via Mitrosoft. incalculably useful when fighting wars or racing for resources...especially if you keep it to yourself.

cheers

h

Hey, I don't even know latin. I know a little logic, which is how I know reductio ad absurdum, but I had to look up the second sentence. I love online translators...

Gravity Accelerators isn't usually a priority; I'm more worried about the Cultural wonders like Galactic Exhibition and Propaganda Machine.

- Ash

De-railed (:(

Anyhow I was not talking about what makes sence, I was asking if it would make the game better. I find that I have a distinct advantage without ZoC's. Now I dont know if I would have an advantage vs the computer if ZoC's where in the game I have the feeling it would even the playing field a bit.

It's really hard to make ZoC make sense in space. Space is vast. Technically, I should be able to move a ship through an enemy star system because they don't span an entire light-year (Sol, for example, has a diameter of about 36 light-hours, if we say its border ends just beyond Pluto). Of course, then enemy fleets could pass by my fleets without encountering them.

I can think up a reason why ZoC's make sense in space too, but that is not the point... what would make gameplay better.. that is what I am asking.

"I was asking if it would make the game better."

I don't think so.

- Ash

~SDC~

ZOC just don't make sense in space.

I can understand it to a degree in Civ for example.

But space is more akin to fighting on the ocean. (Except for that pesky 3 dimensional aspect...)

It would potentially provide a degree of control, but I don't think it would make the game better.