Entrenchment & Multiplayer Games

from Sins Forums

First, I'm very excited about an expansion.

 

But I'm mostly a multiplayer type guy, and I can't help but wonder how long games will be if defensive power is increased without some type of either offensive or economic power being added to counter it.

To grossly oversimplify, you could chop games into two major parts.  The first half is where you are not sure if you are going to win or lose, and the second half is when you pretty much know you are going to win (or lose) but it still takes a while to play the game out to its conclusion.  This second half of the game can take a very long time to complete when guys on the losing side have dug in on their remaining worlds with tons of static defenses.  They aren't going anywhere, and their econ is pretty crippled, but it can take a while to crush several worlds with tons of repair bays, hangars, and turrets augmenting their fleets.

I am totally excited about having more strategic options, but I just want to point out that if defensive options becomes more powerful across the board without some kind of tradeoff, it will be frustrating to play those people who use defense solely as a means of dragging out games, especially when they don't even have an intention of winning.  (And yes, I do occasionally use culture or even superweapons to kill these people.)  Maybe there will be some new super weapons to complement turtling?  =)

I think the expansion will really be awesome for singleplayer.  I hope for multiplayer too.

22,163 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

 

If my reply doesn't really belong in this thread I apologise Cykur for hiijacking your thread.......especially this early!  ;-p

I agree with your "oversimplification" of the first and second halves of an MP SINS game. 

I think we can agree the first half is where the fun is to be had.  I know "mopping-up" or "being mopped-up" isn't something I do for fun.....

Suggested GAME SETUP option:

An option to enable resource/credit injections at preset intervals to whomever is the losing player with the least defensive structures at said injection-interval.  This option might serve to prolong the first-half of the game and just might open the door for some interesting "come-back stories" during otherwise mundane MP "second-halves".

I guess what I'm saying is, Cykur I agree with you! ;)  I would like to see a longer "first-half" (the fun half) and find creative ways of turning the currently (not so fun) "second-half" into something more exciting than "mopping-up" and adding more/better defenses might only serve to lengthen the already often mundane "second half".

...just my .02 cents.

the Monk

 

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

 

At the end of the first half the game is "decided".  Ideally, the losing players just quit or surrender and everyone can start up a new game and enjoy a new first half.

I'm going to guess that the expansion won't affect multiplayer much unless having the expansion is mandatory for being able to play Sins online (forced to buy it) or it's so good that everyone who plays online multiplayer wants to buy it.  Otherwise it will be similar to any other mod--people could enable it and play online with it but it's unlikely that anyone would ever play it online since the game has a small online multiplayer player base.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

unless having the expansion is mandatory for being able to play Sins online
End of quote
They've said that it will only be enabled if all in the match have it.

 

:fox:

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

I actually have fun in the second half too. One time I was definately was going to lose, but kept trying to persuade my opponent to attack my most fortified area. When he finally did the battle we extremely epic. Second half isn't always that bad.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Kitkun, reply 3
unless having the expansion is mandatory for being able to play Sins onlineThey've said that it will only be enabled if all in the match have it. 
End of Kitkun's quote

If everyone has it, can it be turned off???

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I actually have fun in the second half too. One time I was definately was going to lose, but kept trying to persuade my opponent to attack my most fortified area. When he finally did the battle we extremely epic. Second half isn't always that bad.
End of quote

I hear you.  It can be fun doing a last stand.  I suppose it is the duty of the victor to provide this fight, but it is a pretty boring stage of the game.  Defense is static..you aren't going anywhere, but it requires a fair amount of time to kill you.  It is pretty much a grind where the outcome is not in doubt.

I constantly see where somebody has 2-3 worlds left and hides his fleet behind 30 slots of tactical defenses at his HW.  It can take about 15 minutes of fleet build-up to hit a defended world, and another 15 minutes of fighting it and melting the remaining planets. The game becomes an utterly predictable slog.  I accept this...and just hope it isn't about to get worse.

 

At the end of the first half the game is "decided".  Ideally, the losing players just quit or surrender and everyone can start up a new game and enjoy a new first half.
End of quote

Sometime this happens, many times it does not.  If there was some chance that I could be pleasantly surprised by someone who had gone on defense and used it to turn the game around for them, that would be great, but it rarely seems to work like that. 

Now, if someone knows they are losing, but an ally is doing well, then it makes sense to dig in.  Through some perverse logic of the universe, when one guy is doing well but his ally is getting hit hard, they often quit rather than try and hold out for help to arrive.  I guess that is the problem....some people throw in the towel really quickly before the game is decided and others refuse to quit long after...and do to the pace of the game and the nature of static defenses, it takes a while to slowly push them off the map.

I'm just hoping we can have more of the exciting first stage and that new defensive options don't make the second stage drag out even longer where the game becomes a predictable grind.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Maybe add a permanant boost to culture spread rate based on the value of enemy fleet and structures destroyed, and planets cleansed. Then the boring last half might get fun as it gets shorter and shorter.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Maybe add a permanant boost to culture spread rate based on the value of enemy fleet and structures destroyed, and planets cleansed. Then the boring last half might get fun as it gets shorter and shorter.
End of quote

 

That is kind of an interesting idea.  On the flip side, the guy who is winning doesn't really need a culture boost because they have more planets and more money to build more culture stations.  Unless the thing that got boosted was the actual rate of culture change.  I don't think it would make it in though.  People hate getting knocked out by culture.  The rate of allegiance decay got tuned down a few patches ago, if memory serves, for this reason.

 

Maybe one of the super stations will have an additional culture effect, or culture amplification effect for the local planet?

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

2nd half is excellent for trash talking :))

imo the new powerful defensive structures should require the same command points as capital ships require.

 

-ska