Regulus' standard mines useless

At the start of the game, the mines seem to be a decent investment so that you can take care of creeps that try to close in, especially for toebomging but once you can afford the Rokkur Gauntlets (AoE +1.5), you can micro him to hit many creeps in an AoE and never need the mines in the first place. Investing in mines takes away from the ability to level up Snipe, which makes him bad in 1v1 Demigod combat.

Stun Mines, obviously, do not suffer from this because they do 200 damage at level 1 and also, of course, stun. They are invaluable against The Rook.

In a nutshell, I can think of many reasons not to take the mines past level 1 or 2:

 

-AoE items + weapon damage + attack speed make the AoE of the mines needless, as Regulus does more damage per shot than mines do until around level 4 anyway.

-AoE items make the Slow effect of Maim spread to all the creeps it hits, meaning oftentimes melee creeps won't reach regulus before dying, and if they do, the AoE of the gauntlets will be sufficient to stop them. Upgraded Angelic Fury will take care of Giants.

-Mines seem to have a damage area smaller than or the same size as the trigger area, so it usually only hits 1-2 creeps when they do get stepped on, making them poor at killing masses of creeps.

-They take FAR too long to set up, which is precious time you could be spending shooting creeps and valuable energy you could be using to snipe, or set up stun mines later on, or save for Angelic Fury.

-You can have up to 30 mines active at a time, but this hardly seems like a restriction and more like something you'd try to achieve when going for a record unless you spend all damn game placing mines around the flag.

-By the time you'd want to get level 6 mines, 270 damage is as much damage as Regulus does per second, if not per shot, if you had spent the points on stat buffs alone.

-Luring players into mines rarely works after the first few times. This coupled with their low damage and difficulty to set up make them ineffective against players. Snipe doesn't require you to fool your enemy, and can take out fleeing demigods very easily.

-Toe-bombing, AKA running up to creeps and laying mines at their feet, is the best way to get the most out of each mine due to their small AoE. This is not only dangerous but unnecessary if you had gotten AoE gloves instead.

Again, Stun mines are fine and need no changes.

 

In order to fix these problems, I propose a list of buffs, which I am not suggesting all be used, but I would like to see multiples:

+ Halve the number of levels needed to max out mines. Double the power the mine gets out of each level jump.

+ Reduce the number of max active mines from 30 to 10, but increase their damage and AoE.

+ Keep the trigger AoE the same, but widen the damage AoE to make them more effective as creep traps.

>> A small trigger delay would make them more vulnerable to Demigod AoE attacks when stepped on. A decrease in trigger AoE while keeping the Damage AoE the same would make them harder to use as traps, which does not need to happen.

+ Make additional mine levels increase their Trigger and/or Damage AoE as well as their damage.

 

I encourage discussion and would like to be proven wrong about mines, but in my experiences every time I choose to go down the Mines path I am very weak and find it very difficult to use mines because it takes so long to set up multiples, and singles rarely kill even the lowliest of creeps, and also rarely hit that many creeps. Every time I choose to specialize in Snipe and Stats, by contrast, I feel like a force to be reckoned with. I rarely see enemy Regulus players use mines, and those who seem to skip them in order to get more stats + Snipe levels can easily be not only powerful creeping players but excellent Demigod killers.

I actually think a lot of people who think Regulus is bad may just be putting too many points into Mines and not enough into Snipe.

3,340 views 20 replies
Reply #1 Top

I reckon the mines should also be able to be thrown a short distance rather than having to plant them at his feet too.

Reply #2 Top

I agree with having less more powerful mines. 10 would be good, or 15 even, with like 400 damage for each one.

And they shouldn't take 5 points to max out their damage.

 

 

I think mines would better with an explosion range 2.5x larger than their trigger range.  And with a 3 second delay before they explode after being triggered. 

If they where like that, then someone could walk over a feild of them, and they wouldn't know it until they passed the first few, and suddenly the first, then all the others, and they can't back out.  You wouldn't know the first was triggered until 3 seconds later, and it's too late to walk out of the range except all but the very last few you might of triggered.

 

I think the mines need a minimum distance between placement with these changes. It's quite obvious to someone that's been hit by them once what it looks like.. So it's like, one hits you, so you back off.
   But that min distance is needed, yes, or you could just stack so many mines in one place that it instantly killed someone.
   A change in function a bit with a 3 second delay would be a sort of middle ground between the issue of stacking, and people backing off after triggering a single mine.

 

Mines should have 3 levels of damage upgrades, and have a branched upgrade that has like a 50% chance for instant cooldown.

 

Stun mines are fine except it needs to root someone in place so they can't move but can still attack/cast spells, but maybe have a longer duration.

Reply #3 Top

You can stack the mines to quickly do enough damage to a demigod to force a retreat (although Regulus could be improved by removing or reducing the mine placement cooldown to make it energy dependant instead of cooldown)

 

Also keep in mind that you can't equate mines with splash damage items 1:1. Splash damage items cause friendly fire. A splash-Regulus will wipe out the enemy minotaurs and your own minotaurs as well - and you aren't exactly helping your rook when shooting his melee target (you'll hurt him just as much).

Reply #4 Top

I think these are some fine suggestions.  I feel regulus seems like a light speedy muskateer running around the battlefield killing demigods and setting traps.  If he has to place 30 freaking mines to do anything he is staying in one place way too long and it really ruins his flow.  These suggestions look like a step in the right direction for him or the skill could simply be replaced by something more fitting.

Reply #5 Top

I agree with many suggestions here.

The most efficient way to play Regulus currently is to focus only on stats increase and get the AOE gloves and other weapon buffing items (attack speed and damage increase). You don't need skills, except when you can't buff your stats anymore...

Not only mines are useless IMO, but also Snipe, because it takes long to charge, and will overall deal much less damages than your normal attack would do if you attack normally with a focus on stats increased character. So it would be good to reduce the number of upgrades needed for Regulus to reach his 600 damages snipe : first upgrade = 200 damages, second = 400, third = 600. (Why not a 4th upgrade = 800?).

So not only mines need reviewing, but also snipe, because regular shots should not be more interesting than a skill.

I also think it would be nice that stun mines were snare mines, that would keep a Demigod in its place but would not prevent him to use abilities or attack if he can.

Reply #6 Top

The srandard mines are a bit underpowered i agree, but the buffs u sugest would make them NUTS.

They are meant to be hard to use and highly strategic, they need a minor decrease in cooldown and a minor increas in dmg, also a reduction on mana cost and a decrease in the amount allowed at once would be nice.

The mines are similar to techies mines in dota except that in dota they were his main form of dmg output and the enemy heroes had way less health. They are nifty but need tweaking

Regulus' Stun mines are NUTS, they could do with a dmg decrease of like 50%, then they would be more realistic.

Reply #7 Top

I want a remote bomb at high levels!!!! I am fed up to see minautors exploding on my mines just before the hero. But a 5s cooldown and and increase of the firepower should be fine.

Reply #8 Top

The mines need a slight damage buff (actually they don't) and a something like 50% faster cooldown to be more useful, IMO. I have successfully used them to totally annihilate a Rook who walked through 10 of my mines. And even if the enemy does survive the initial blasts, you can snipe him into shreds. Right now the mines are kickass! I love using them and luring Demigods into certain doom.

 

Also, some mines fail to detonate if placed as a cluster (bug).

Reply #9 Top

I'd rather not see mines gain a straight damage buff. It's way too easy to have a minotaur peel off a 600 damage mine before the demigod rolls through. I'd much rather see mines laid as fields that do 200 AoE damage each that sum to greater than the current max and take a second to go off. If the minotaurs go in, the enemy demi gets a warning, but still can't go plowing through the field. It'd be able to peel most of a wave or do heavy damage to a demi. Naturally, the cooldown should go way up. Still, it shouldn't boil down to a feat of endurance of the type Oakwarrior's talking about to lay a large mine field.

Reply #10 Top

If they had no cost, they would be fine. Reduce the cooldown to something absurd like 1 or no cooldown at all. Then, 270 damage isn't much, but when you feasibly can lay them to kingdom come on one spot, it's fine. This would also work if mines were changed to do a lot more damage, but a lot lower limit. The energy cost of mines is already virtually nil, it's just the cooldown making them awful.

 

As for Regulus being bad, I didn't find him a bad character at all, until I discovered stun chaining. He's got none, and even then no offensive ones, until too late imo. I think the stasis mines are fine.

Reply #11 Top

A little more steeper damage-curve in the Skilltree + remove one/two level. 5 Skillpoints are to much for the mines right now, +Stats brings him more benefit. Reduce the cooldown to 5 seconds - 10 is to long to plant a minefield. Even with 5secs. you stand around for 1 whole minute to deal enough damage to instantly kill a demigod - but i dont think they're thought for that. Mines are for clearing waves, i guess - but still useless.

A Wave spawns every 60 seconds and his Angelic Fury has a 45 cooldown, so the mines are redundant.

-Cd, remove highest lvl mines -> steeper dmggain per lvl and make it possible to stack them, reduce this ridicoulus radius or remove it.

 

So long,

Aspartem

Reply #12 Top

as an aside to what ppipp says: as a stat/equipment-based Regulus, at half health I'm perfectly happy to take on a Regulus specced any other way at full health, because I will beat them.  It's great, because they usually are so flabberghasted they don't retreat :D

I'll put this in the full report later, but all of Reg's early direct skills need help.  Personally, I'd love to see his snipe ability get secondary bleed DoT, and the stun mines scrapped completely.  Put increasing stun time on the direct damage mines per level, this makes them immediately useful and gives you another skill slot to fill with something novel :P

Peace

Reply #13 Top

Quoting innociv, reply 2
I agree with having less more powerful mines. 10 would be good, or 15 even, with like 400 damage for each one.

And they shouldn't take 5 points to max out their damage.
End of innociv's quote

 

I agree.

I think mines would better with an explosion range 2.5x larger than their trigger range.  And with a 3 second delay before they explode after being triggered. 


If they where like that, then someone could walk over a feild of them, and they wouldn't know it until they passed the first few, and suddenly the first, then all the others, and they can't back out.  You wouldn't know the first was triggered until 3 seconds later, and it's too late to walk out of the range except all but the very last few you might of triggered.

End of quote

That would make mines too powerful in groups and too weak in singles. Trigger delays are needless with a damage AoE increase, because the point is to make them actually hit more than 1 target.

I think the mines need a minimum distance between placement with these changes. It's quite obvious to someone that's been hit by them once what it looks like.. So it's like, one hits you, so you back off.
   But that min distance is needed, yes, or you could just stack so many mines in one place that it instantly killed someone.
   A change in function a bit with a 3 second delay would be a sort of middle ground between the issue of stacking, and people backing off after triggering a single mine.
End of quote

They do not need to change them that much.

 

Mines should have 3 levels of damage upgrades, and have a branched upgrade that has like a 50% chance for instant cooldown.
End of quote

Luck-based abilities have no place in a competitive esport, which this game is trying to be.

Stun mines are fine except it needs to root someone in place so they can't move but can still attack/cast spells, but maybe have a longer duration.
End of quote

I think they are fine as-is.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Oakwarrior, reply 8
The mines need a slight damage buff (actually they don't) and a something like 50% faster cooldown to be more useful, IMO. I have successfully used them to totally annihilate a Rook who walked through 10 of my mines. And even if the enemy does survive the initial blasts, you can snipe him into shreds. Right now the mines are kickass! I love using them and luring Demigods into certain doom.

 

Also, some mines fail to detonate if placed as a cluster (bug).
End of Oakwarrior's quote

 

10 mines take a lot of time to set up. If mines had no cooldown at all, or at least a very short one, then you'd have a good point, but I have done this too, and then next game I did not even take mines and I destroyed everyone without needing to pray some noob stepped on my mines. I could kite if I needed to run because I had Maim II, and since Stun Mines can be set up just as easily as regular mines and do great damage to boot, why spend 6 points on regular mines when you can get the same results from 2 with Stun mines, since you're going to take the Stunners anyway? Worse, your Snipe ability and regular attacks are not as good if you keep upgrading your mines unless you want to slog it out to the end to get decent.

That is exactly the problem with mines. It's not that they are never useful, it's just that when you compare them to everything else Regulus has available to him they are useless by comparison.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting xthetenth, reply 9
I'd rather not see mines gain a straight damage buff. It's way too easy to have a minotaur peel off a 600 damage mine before the demigod rolls through. I'd much rather see mines laid as fields that do 200 AoE damage each that sum to greater than the current max and take a second to go off. If the minotaurs go in, the enemy demi gets a warning, but still can't go plowing through the field. It'd be able to peel most of a wave or do heavy damage to a demi. Naturally, the cooldown should go way up. Still, it shouldn't boil down to a feat of endurance of the type Oakwarrior's talking about to lay a large mine field.
End of xthetenth's quote

If you want the enemy DGs to not get a warning from regular mines, don't lay them in the creep lanes. Use stun mines in the creep lanes, because only enemy DGs can trigger them. They don't need to change that much to be balanced. Simplicity is key.

Reply #16 Top

/sign vid

I also rather take Snipe + Stats.. no i'd rather take 5 Statpoints than the mines, since a.) mines are crappy b.) Stats are hillarious for him.

Crappy mines or 600 Hp, 1.2hp/sec, 1000 Mana, 12mana/sec, 40 damage, 300 armor and 30% attack speed... thats pretty much ^^

Reply #17 Top

okay well 10 mines at 500 damage would be 5k damage.  I think mine-stacking is a problem.  It's like randomly dying. :/

There needs to be a balance between mine-stacking and somone not getting hit by just 1 mine then backing off.

Reply #18 Top

They don't need much of a dmg buff. Except possibly at low levels. They just need to be fixed to be more useable, maybe be remote or have larger aoe or lowere mana cost or something. Although this doesnt matter because this is the BETA PHASE 1, it isnt meant to be balanced

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Orkimond, reply 18
They don't need much of a dmg buff. Except possibly at low levels. They just need to be fixed to be more useable, maybe be remote or have larger aoe or lowere mana cost or something. Although this doesnt matter because this is the BETA PHASE 1, it isnt meant to be balanced
End of Orkimond's quote

 

I don't think they need much of a damage buff either. They just take 6 points to finally get good. If anything, it's the fact that you have to suck for so long before Mines become decent--but even the maxed mines are not very good.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting innociv, reply 17
okay well 10 mines at 500 damage would be 5k damage.  I think mine-stacking is a problem.  It's like randomly dying. :/
There needs to be a balance between mine-stacking and somone not getting hit by just 1 mine then backing off.
End of innociv's quote

 

Or don't let Regulus camp for so long that he lays down 10 mines in one spot. It's freaking hard. Also, if they were that strong and 10 mines was the limit like I wanted, you'd have to run into that exact spot just to get killed. That's called risk and reward. Bring totems.