[Suggestion] Option to Downgrade abilities / Adjust abilities

from Demigod Forums

After playing the beta many times I discovered, while I was playing as the Torch Bearer, that some abilities do increase in energy costs as they gain levels. After doing a quick glance at the rest of the demigods, I found that this holds true for most abilities.

After doing some number crunching (to figure why I couldn't use some of my "Rain of Ice" as often as I used to), I learned that some abilities can increase in energy demands very quickly. This increase in energy demands can occur fast enough that you would have much difficulty in trying to use them (atleast until you the gain levels, and equipment to compensate). To put things into perspective, the power "Rain of Ice" at level 1 costs 310 energy to use, and a level 1 Torch Bearer with his 1550 energy can expect to use it 5 times before he needs to recharge. At level 5, a Torch Bearer can learn "Rain of Ice" level 3 which costs 930 energy, a large enough increase to deplete the Torch Bearer's 2182 energy after being cast 2 times.

Given how easy it is to nerf your character in this regard, I was thinking that maybe it would be worth while to allow you to open your skill tree and allow you to use the weaker setting (lower level version) until you get the energy you need to use the power at its highest setting. Maybe we could right click the power, and a shining light will circle that ability to indicate what version we are using. Regardless, I'm sure its within the power of the Torch Bearer (or other like demigod) to blast a couple of minions without wasting the energy needed to devastate an army.

P.S. Since I'm on the subject of selecting weaker versions of abilities, I'll bring up selecting alternate versions of abilities. Some abilities such as the "Explosive Mine" for Regulus (angel sniper) I find difficult to use. It seems to deal too little damage, has a small area of effect, and is set off by the first enemy to walk over it instead of having a 1 second delay so a couple more enemies might run into the AOE before it goes off. Being able to adjust some settings of the mines for instance would help to provide some flexibility in some of the powers we might encounter and use in this game.

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Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

Not sure I like the idea of being able to downgrade. Too easy to abuse the ability - i.e. mine the hell out of an area, then un-equip the skill and load up on the sniping skill. Then once the mines have been set off, dump the sniping skill and and re-equip mine skills. And so on.

One aspect of this game's strategy is your choice of skills with your chosen demigod, and the option to downgrade kind of cheapens the aspect. Plus, if you see your opponent eating towers or mining or using heavy fire skills (for example), you can infer that he might be weaker in other ksills, and adjust your own strategy according. This would also become a moot point if downgrading was possible.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

he doesn't wants to get the point back, just that he can cast skills on a lower level than he could so he spends less mana on that skill.

I can see a point in it, but I don't like it very much, overkilling is the price you have to pay for stronger spells.

 

(I could imagine a rather Expansive Item which allows you to reskill though, but could live very well without it)

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting TheBigOne, reply 2
he doesn't wants to get the point back, just that he can cast skills on a lower level than he could so he spends less mana on that skill.
End of TheBigOne's quote

Granted, but that alone isn't justification, I think. If you're a spell-caster, proper management of energy should be important, either through avoiding the highest level of a spell, or through purchasing energy boosting items. If you find yourself running into situations where you keep bleeding your energy dry, you need to adapt your strategy accordingly. Besides, the point you spent to get the higher level of a technique spell could have been spent on a general stat upgrade, increasing both your energy recharge rate and maximum reserves.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

iunno when useing torch bearer once i got both things that reduce cast time i use skills practically all the time without wasting many i never go below half so i think its fine in terms of how much the mana cost

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

I don't know really.

 

What about the UI?  You drag the lower lvl skill onto your bar then?
If we're gogin to do that i'd rather have more than 4 actives to pick from and put the ones i want to use on my bar.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Looks like my post may need some clarification.

About using powers at a lower level: You don't get a skill point refund for selecting a lower level. The basic idea was to use a lower setting to prevent you from over burning energy. Plus, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has every miss clicked something in a game and ended up doing something that would be a stupid move. This downgrade if you will was suggested as a means to negate that mistake.

About the UI: I provided a suggestion, but it appears to have been missed. What I was thinking was you would right click the lower level version of a power much like you would left click a power to choose the next level. A little light would circle the version of the power you were then using.

However, I'm not against the idea of being able drag and drop the skills you wish to use onto your bar, as was suggested by innociv.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

@Divine

The right clicking would need to much time in the middle of a battle. Everything else, then pressing the shortcut takes to long, imo. Even using the mouse and ... argh.. clicking skills x_x

Well, i dont see it nessecary to downgrade skills in a game like this. In an MMORPG where you play a healer and have to heal for.. 20min. ok, there you have to manage your manapool, but in demigod i dont see any problems with that. No it would make it harder to balance.

Lv up AE-skill XY to the max, and hittin player with the max skill, while farmin creeps on the first lvl because it saves mana.. nah, would lead to abuses imo.

So thumps down. :thumbsdown:

So long, Aspartem :snowman:

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top


After playing the beta many times I discovered, while I was playing as the Torch Bearer, that some abilities do increase in energy costs as they gain levels. After doing a quick glance at the rest of the demigods, I found that this holds true for most abilities.

After doing some number crunching (to figure why I couldn't use some of my "Rain of Ice" as often as I used to), I learned that some abilities can increase in energy demands very quickly. This increase in energy demands can occur fast enough that you would have much difficulty in trying to use them (atleast until you the gain levels, and equipment to compensate). To put things into perspective, the power "Rain of Ice" at level 1 costs 310 energy to use, and a level 1 Torch Bearer with his 1550 energy can expect to use it 5 times before he needs to recharge. At level 5, a Torch Bearer can learn "Rain of Ice" level 3 which costs 930 energy, a large enough increase to deplete the Torch Bearer's 2182 energy after being cast 2 times.

Given how easy it is to nerf your character in this regard, I was thinking that maybe it would be worth while to allow you to open your skill tree and allow you to use the weaker setting (lower level version) until you get the energy you need to use the power at its highest setting. Maybe we could right click the power, and a shining light will circle that ability to indicate what version we are using. Regardless, I'm sure its within the power of the Torch Bearer (or other like demigod) to blast a couple of minions without wasting the energy needed to devastate an army.

P.S. Since I'm on the subject of selecting weaker versions of abilities, I'll bring up selecting alternate versions of abilities. Some abilities such as the "Explosive Mine" for Regulus (angel sniper) I find difficult to use. It seems to deal too little damage, has a small area of effect, and is set off by the first enemy to walk over it instead of having a 1 second delay so a couple more enemies might run into the AOE before it goes off. Being able to adjust some settings of the mines for instance would help to provide some flexibility in some of the powers we might encounter and use in this game.

End of quote

 

I didn't really read your entire post, but it sounds like you're proposing an idea to solve the problem of mana costs scaling too high with skill levels? I think a better solution would be to just normalize the mana costs a little bit. Instead of going from 200 to 900, maybe 400 to 600, as an example. Of course the numbers would have to be tweaked but you get the idea. This wouldn't work for every ability, also.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Yeah. Met's right. Why so complicated? They could just fix the mana issues, make him more or less dependant on manaitems + pots (which could be a part of the hero design) and so also cancel the abuses of downranking - which exist if you ever played an MMORPG you'll know what i mean.

So long, Aspartem :snowman: