How I scored 23k step by step

+20 pop growth +2 speed
Populest(20 morale, 20 diplomacy)

Gigantic universe, abundent good planets, tight clusters
3 civs I dont like(the warlike ones) I made
incrediable, pure good.
The stupid civs, I made geniuses pure evil.

I hit control N alot(restart the game for a specific
starting position) I know some people think this
is lame, but i get bored really fast with a bad start
and I play for fun too, you have your way, I have mine.

The start im looking for is a bunch of big clusters
near me and a 20 quality planet. Thats it.

At the start of the game, I dont care that much about
pop growth, its all about getting my super fast colony
ships out as quickly as possible. So i raise my tax
rate very high, about 55-60 percent and max out my
industry capacity to 100%

I then drop 100% of my resources into military and
build a colony ship on my home planet(if its a 20pq,
should say 2 turns(ie 3 turns).

I then drop my preexisting colony ship on the highest
quality planet it can get to in the same turn(remember
I took speed 2, so it has 4 speed, and can reach 5
spaces away if you select the actual star as a target)

I have it build a scout(should also take 2 turns(ie 3)

After my first colonyship(Cship) I move about 200million
people and drop it on a near by high quality system.

The also build a 2nd scout on my other colony after
the first one is built. The reason for scouts is mostly
to find those damn resources around my area, the
computer sees them for free, I dont and they are very
important. After the 2nd scout is built I switch
it to a CShip.

Now, I build 2 kinds of cships. Ones that have 180-200
million, and ones that have 20-30million.

The 180-200 from my Earth I start skipping over nearby
stars and drop them on stars as far away as they can
reach(thus extending my range for the next generation)
and the 20-30 million colonies that are built from
the colonies that weres seeded by an earth colony are
used to fill in the gaps. I will also throw some
of them on long distance voyages too, as there tends to
be more far away then near by(expanding area of a circle
and such)

On the 20-30 million planets I tend to build a scout
and then have it start building a constructor. Though
if its really close to a contested area I will have
it build cships and half its pop again :) I will
even 'PURCHASE' A cship on the front line of a very
contested sector, but otherwise I do not purchase
cships.

Anyway, with this setting I have literally grabbed over
half of a gigantic galaxy before being blocked by the
computer, it can also be as little as a quarter, but even a quarter is probably way more then most people
get and plenty for this to work.

Now after the land grab, I am techonology way behind.
I do give research about 15% about when my funds drop
to +200 or get communications, universal translator
and diplomacy and then trade fairly quickly without
slowing me down to much when I do switch over.

After trade, I build about 5 freighters fast(have to be
fast cause the next phase cripples my ability to build
anything for awhile)

Generally 1 of the incrediable computers will be
stuck in some corner bogged down with the hostile
computers and I can ignore him. The other 2 incredibles
I send a about 3 freighters to each asap. This makes
them LIKE me, and they can kill me easily now
if they wanted too. Oh yea, make sure u take most of
the good morality picks(I take some of the ones
that increase PQ and take the middle ground on the
ones that effect morale, as -33% to morale makes
a planet worthless. The rest I take the "good" choice.
And if im having a bad day, I take some of the 'good'
choices for the PQ ones as well.

Even then, my tech graph is PUNY, but the minor races
rarely have diplomacy and trade and I can get a few
things in trade. I then work for the fastest trade
good that the computer hasnt built, the diplomacy one
is the best to have(though I hate trading it to a major
civ, but u can trade it to a minor or a weaker major)
but any will do. Once u have researched the tech
for the trade good, BUY IT. This will probably put
you WAY in the red, but who cares, you own half the
galaxy and you will come out in a few turns you will
be caught up in tech as you trade the trade good for
all the non military techs(dont bother with military as
the computer is a real pain in the ass about trading
them) You should get a few more trade goodes avaliable
to buy, and guess what, you buy em again. As I tend
to be way behind in tech by this time, I tend to just
put all my econ into making money for about a year.
and buy lots of trade goods and eventually wonders(
focusing on influence/morality/econ and growth rate)

After about 6 turns of this, you should be caught up in
tech not counting the high end military stuff and some
civ will probably have dreadnoughts by now(incrediable
level civs tech very fast).

After this phase, I turn to a 30 military-40 social
30 research phase and those 30million planets
that are building constructors should be getting close
to done. With them I start grabbing resources.

The other systems are still building colony ships
and filling some holes left over in my core sectors that
I skipped as well as 2-5th planets of the same system
that I dont colonize while doing my initial expansion.

I perfer taking stars in sectors that the computer isnt
in, then in trying to culturally control a sector early
on.

Social projects tend to be soil/entertainment/habitat
fusion/manufacturing center and basicily research
moral items.

back when I thought you couldnt buy wonders, I built
up my best planet with all production increasing things
and got it to the point where it can build a wonder in
2-8 turns depending on how big a wonder it is.

Now I just buy everything and I cease to worry about
having a super producing planet. Though I eventually
get there anyway, but thats much later.

Now, constructors, after my initial grab, I build
up the influence ones and start building
production increasing starbases in my better sectors.

About now I am also researching dreadnoughts myself
its way to expensive to try trading for. Once I have
it, I put my best 10 or so planets into building
dreadnoughts and I make em build a shipyard to for the
hell of it.

I use the dreadnoughts for 2 reasons. Cause if I dont
have a military the computer will make awful annoying
demands of me, and I use em to take over minors.

Once I have a few dreadnoughts and most of my sectors
have a nice big production bonus from starbases(I only
build 1 starbase per sector, I think that being able
to build more is kinda lame, but who am I to talk, I
do plenty that many would consider lame)

Anyway, the planets that are not building dreadnoughts
are now pouring out constructors that I use to build
up the other resource bases(the influence ones u should
keep maxed to at first protect your own sectors)

Ok, so now you have 25-50% of the galaxy under your
control, your pop should be nearing the halfway point
between the geniuses and the incrediables(your pop
potential is way higher, but most of ur planets are way
under popped.

You are running out of places to put constructors,
you have 10-20 dreadnoughts sitting around and you
enter a new phase.

Its called, dropping colony ships in enemy sectors and
building cultural starbases in the neighboring sectors
that are unihabited(this is important, putting a
cultural starbase in an enemies sector will result
in either you giving him the starbase, or your 10
dreadnoughts trying to fend off his 100 dreadnoughts).

I try to start with the hostile gensius players who I
can out strip them technologically very easily
by trading with the majors and now doing my own
research. With my massive tech lead and the trade
goods that I bought that they never had anything
worth trading for I trade them for something else.
I look for an influence resource they are sitting on
with a starbase and guess what if you have enough tech
and trade goods, they will their starbase :)

Now those colonies u dropped in the computers territory
with those big cultural starbases(I tend to go for
cultural maximizing tech etc) will begin to do their
work. After a few conversions, as these are tight
clusters, the entire empire will become 'doomed' to
eventual conversion, it can take awhile, but it will
be an inevitable and peaceful transition, that last
planet can sometimes take a very long time(it must get
some bonus, but not enough.

I then move on to the next computer, and btw, this is
a timed event using experience, and its a big galaxy.

When I say I move on to the next computer, what I really
mean is that I actually started the constructors/colony
ships on their way many many turns ago and they are
just arriving to be set up about when the previous
empire is doomed to eventual conversion.

Repeat, going up the scale from weakest to strongest.
As time goes by, you should get more and more
dreadnoughts, which will keep the stronger empires ur
converting from declaring war and you will gain
more influence resources to build up, making the
conversion even easier. In my last game, I had 10 and
the largest empire lost about 20 star systems in 5
months, thats 4 stars systems per turn :)

When a star system converts, there are some issues
computer cheats on morality or something, cause
I get systems with 22billion people on them on a 16
quality planet and my morale is nill. This requires
some fast buying/offloading of pop to prevent
it from going to the I-league.

I like offloading unhappy pop from captured planets nto
combat transporters and using my little dreadnought fleet to take capture the minors. Who says I dont
fight!

Well, by the time you reduce the computers to 1-2
planets in a very distance sector(not to close or you
will win via military conquest if you culturally
take over their last system. You go for tech victory
while maxing your PQ and growth rate(IE, morale)
by the time I normally get to final frontier
I have about 5 trillion pop, this is worth about 7-9
k points on the meta verse.

If your really bored, you can shut down ur tech and
military production(buy any colony ships you need, your
econ is sick at this point, in fact its more effecient
to just buy everything you need then to let it produce
simply because to produce something you have to spend
credits on EVERY planet, even planets that are producing
nothing(or worse producing something u have to pay
maintence for)

So its just more effecient to shut spending down to
0 on everything and buy everything u need. Im lazy
and leave social production at 100% and make my
income about 5-10k per turn positive and buy
terraforming/soil/habitate/entertainment/stadium/etc on
my newest planets, dropping 3-5billion people on a
class 11 world takes some fast buying to make em happy.

I change my gonverner to build just those projects
and anything else that increases morale(the only thing
that helps at this point)

If a planet finishes all those projects, I set it to
nothing.

Then you goto the planet screen and order it by morale
and buy the items to improve the morale on your
worst planets, each turn until all of them are 100
morale, and every planet that started as a 11 or better
is colonized and built up.

then you can just hit turn over and over again
for as long as you like. I got bored at about 23
trillion and finally submiited a score worth,
coincidentially 23k.

For my, my pop growth was a fairly consitent 90 billion
per month. So to go from 5trillion to 23 trillion
it took about 250 turns. Though from 19 trillion
to 23 trillion, most everything was done and most
turns only took a couple seconds.

The game is also unstable as hell with this pop when
you are actually building new colonizes(it seemed
fine if i just hit turn without building anythign)
and it tended to crash to desktop about 1 out of 3 turns
if I built something, so i saved frequently.
1,719 views 40 replies
Reply #1 Top
Nice strategy, but it also sounds a little bit boring. I like my games, as I like my women: not too big, and filled with action :D
Reply #2 Top
I've noticed that instability as well, for me it tended to kick in around 6 trillion or so. That's why I never got into pushing the game much, I like to push systems just to see what happens but the constant crashing was just too annoying. :notsure:
Reply #3 Top
DikDirk. After playing that game, I better apperciate
your point of view, well put :)

Reply #4 Top
Ah, so that was the reason two of my games crashed loads at the end of the game. Thought it was something to do with that..... First time was on a gigantic galaxy where I was going for a culture win, and the second I'd put in those terraforming techs of jesusofborgs (I think it was him).

~SDC~
Reply #5 Top
To Staffa

//For my, my pop growth was a fairly consitent 90 billion
per month. So to go from 5trillion to 23 trillion
it took about 250 turns. Though from 19 trillion
to 23 trillion, most everything was done and most
turns only took a couple seconds.//

Hm i was able to colonize every PQ10 planet on Gigantic/Tight Clusters/Abudant in 2.5 years :p All planets had 3500+ population and 54+ morale at that moment by the way. Won with ~5.5 trillions and 7.99 trillions after 3 years - score 3734 in 99Jul and 5646 in 202Jul.

But Brad told that we must play fair so i posted score 3734.

--
Game crashes because of too many messages in a list. So deleting all messages will reduce number of crashes (Shift-click on first and then on last message in the list).

~SDC~
Reply #6 Top
What is fair, by my ethical standards, what I did was
fair. My issue with it is not that I played unfairly
but that the scoring system rewards boring, trivial game play.

When such a systematic problem exists, the fault lies
with the system, not the users of that system. Your
comments lead me to believe you think otherwise.

I could go on for a long time on theory about why
systems that do not protect themselves from abuse will
always be abused and why those that, like you, refuse
to abuse it, will always feel cheated, and why in the
end, the only loser will be the system, which will fail
when even loyal people like you give up in disgust.

But I think you already know that, and when fixing
the system is still fairly easy, lets not look to the
abusers abusers, but rather fix the system so it can't
be abused. And no, its not possible to create an
unabusable system, but its possible to create one that
is pretty damn close and we are not there yet.



Reply #7 Top
Btw, the system I refer to is the metaverse, not
Galciv, which as a stand alone game is unconcerned
with how the metaverse score is calculated.
Reply #8 Top
The main practical problem I have with such blatant score-milking (no offense Staffa :) ) is that the final score is almost entirely a reflection of how long it takes you to get bored with pushing 'end turn', rather than being any indicator of your skill, and in that respect it *is* unfair on other players whose scores are lower, but almost entirely earned by dint of skill and effort.

I think it might be a good idea if the contribution of the score from population was either capped at 10trillion (or even lower... has anyone ended the game with even 8 trillion without milking it?) or exponentially decaying so that the payoff for extra population gets beaten by the turn penalty much quicker.

Personally, I rather prefer the first option. People are going to milk the score (and lets face it, if the temptation's there, most people will give in a wee bit :) ), so why not just make it clear exactly when it stops being useful to do so?

~SDC~
Reply #9 Top
//Your comments lead me to believe you think otherwise.//

I don't think overthise.

1) I think that i am a better Munchkin than you because i can increase my score faster. This is good - i like my Munckin skills.
2) By my ethical standards, it's fair too.
3) For now i feel cheated because:
3a) I got Military win in Jan94 on Gigantic/Masochistic/Tight Clusters/Abudant patch 1.02.042 and got only 2754 points for that.
3b) Now it's much more efficient to play on crippling (or even lower difficulty) - you can micromanage much less on this difficulty and it will took much less real time.
3c) Same issue with tech victory. And 2x points for that - this is just L O L.

~SDC~
Reply #10 Top
In my other thread, I suggest using PQ as the indicator
which demonstrates galactic conquest without being
milkable through just using end turn. Some milking is
possible through setting up a few extra colonies, but
its minimal and at least your working at something for
it.

We fundementally agree Cataleptic, I dont think what
I did should even have been possible. My issue is that
some would say the fault is mine for having done it
where I would say the fault is the system, for having
allowed it.

Though it does point out another issue. 8 trillion
people is where you end up with in your games. This
suggests it takes you longer to finish then does me
as I end up with about 5-6 trillion and control every
star but 1 or 2 and have every planet inhabited.

So why do you 'deserve' to have the higher score when
the only likely difference is that it took you longer
to complete the game?

Again using PQ would eliminate this time dependent
reference to pop. Using PQ with equal universe our
Universal ownership(Hence pq level) would be nearly
equal and the TIME would be the only relative factor
between us, and THAT would be the correct indicator of
skill.

Using PQ is explained in more detail in the other thread
im not gonna repeat it here.
Reply #11 Top
Ellestar, when you say you did not submit your score
because you were told its unfair, that is what I was
refering to. I obviously did submit my score.

As for your munckin skills, by all means own them :)
Though im not sure that you do :)

I was 1 turn from final frontier when I shut down
research in Jan 2194 with 5559.3 trillion

I had every yellow star system colonized already except
the 2 remaining ememy stars and about 90% of the
systems that had 12 or better planets.

I spent the next few turns tracking down the remaining
10 percent and filling any 11+ holes in my current
systems. and then just hit end turn until I had
22379 trillion in Feb 2210 when I finally said enough
is enough. It was still growing rather rapidly and
im sure my score could have gone as high as 30k.

Now, if you were able to milk your people faster, I
applaud your 'turn effeciency'
But I was not trying to be turn effecient, I was being
time effecient, I wanted to spend as little time
doing this as I could, so where you might track down
every little thing you could do each turn to help grow
your pop. I just hit end turn a lot :)

Reply #12 Top
Galciv is continually being improved. So, to make it the best game it can possibly be, the Metaverse needs to be overhauled. The Metaverse mechanics (for those that care) currently discourage: updating the game; small maps; higher difficulty levels; victory paths which cost population (ie military). Another thread discussed possible improvements in its *structure* and most writers liked the idea of having separate charts for each map size. This would potentially increase the fun factor by how ever many size maps there are. (Subject to the cost of setting up a much more elaborate system I suppose).
Reply #13 Top
I get better scores at the highest difficulty, not
sure I can agree that the current system discourages
higher difficulty. Clearly your other points
are valid though. It needs a lot of help right now
Reply #14 Top
Staffa: And I bet you love having that sparkling new (grey) medal. But as we in the Southern Hemisphere say "If you're not number one, you've lost".
Reply #15 Top
Staffa: Ya gotta stop hitting 'enter' at the end of each line. It means you take longer to say what you want to say.
Reply #16 Top
I dont deserve to be number one, nor would I want to be
number 1 in a system that rewards boring game play.
That would mean I played the most boring games of
everyone. :) And that sounds boring!

Perhaps when the system is fixed it might be worth
getting number 1, my only interest right now is in
generating dialogue to help concince the developers
that some issues need fixing.

If in the end I fail to get this address perhaps I
will play another game and get 30k this time,
and take the number 1 spot, maybe they will pay
attention. But I really don't want to spend another
4 hours having fun followed by 4 hours of being
bored. So lets not go there shall we :)

As for hitting enter, it was an unintended the first
time, but now I have grown to like the result.
Reply #17 Top
Anyway, I was number 13 before that game, not
like I earned the grey metal with it :)

I got 13 without any milking at all!
Reply #18 Top
Staffa #17: Oh.

Well anyway, I can't understand those who knock the Metaverse. I just cracked the Top 25 and I couldn't get to sleep from excitement. From my viewpoint, I've finally done something with my life. ;p
Reply #19 Top
Oh wow, im sorry for invadvertantly knocking
your achievement :(

I spend way to much time playing games and have
been number one on many rating systems most of which
had vastly larger playing populations then this one.
Er I better shut up though before people start thinking
im arrogant.

I am, I just dont want people thinking it ;)

Reply #20 Top
Ok, I read some of this post, but prolly not enough (i'm too lazy to read it all).

So is it population that pretty much determines your score? (or at least the bulk of it?)

~SDC~
Reply #21 Top
To Staffa

//Anyway, with this setting I have literally grabbed over
half of a gigantic galaxy before being blocked by the
computer.//

Half a galaxy on initial colonizing phase on Gigantic/Tight Clusters??? Well with that good start... Mmm what number of Ctrl-Ns? My game was 5th (so 4 Ctrl-N).
I played from 54 planets and w/o +2 Speed.

---
I'll start a challenge soon and we'll see who is better. Or you can participate in 1st Galciv Tournament - i'm going to a tech win. (Don't forget that you will have penalties for tech trading/capturing if you are going to a tech win by our current rules).

~SDC~
Reply #22 Top
//Now, if you were able to milk your people faster, I
applaud your 'turn effeciency'
But I was not trying to be turn effecient, I was being
time effecient, I wanted to spend as little time
doing this as I could, so where you might track down
every little thing you could do each turn to help grow
your pop. I just hit end turn a lot//

I like 'turn efficiency' more. It's ingame efficiency. Time efficiency is a metagame efficiency. I like it too. But ingame efficiency is a 1st priority for me.

~SDC~
Reply #23 Top
To Staffa

Also, if you'll play tournament, save every several turns (just before clicking 'end of turn') and name saves like [turn][somethingother] - say 1begin, 23lalala,.. - we need a saves of a good players.

~SDC~
Reply #24 Top
Since I don't know how to submit a score to the metaverse (do you have to be online for that while finishing the game?) I never dealt with it's scoring system... But listen Stardock:
Population beeing a factor in it is complete nonsense!!!

Pop/Planet/Turns could be a factor but not population alone!

I mean all games but giant/abundant would be pointless since you could nowhere else reach a compareable pop! And I think many people will agree when I say that giant/abundant is the easiest setting for the human player besides on what you select as intelligence of the AI's... So you get the highest score for the easiest and as the thread creator mentioned most boring setting!?
Reply #25 Top
Staffa,

I do think that your intentions are good in milking that game just to prove that the scoring needs tweaking.
Stardock has been listening to our feedback on the Metaverse scoring and have tweaked it a number of times in past versions and have indicated that the scoring algo would be changed again in 1.04 to make difficulty more important and map size less (though some 1.04 beta testers have reported weird scores).

Would like to let you know, so as to spare you the tedium of racking up another milked score just to prove your point, Stardock had deleted a number of 25-35k scores of a previous version. I believe they did so because those scores were disruptive to the metaverse.

Most of the forum regulars are aware of the shortcomings of the current metaverse, it is a matter of how to improve it.