Freelancer was fun, and the nomad ships and system were amazing. My reaction coming upon the dyson sphere was "WTF?! A wall in space?" Great game, but the downsides were that you couldn't get capital ships (without mods), nor use a joystick.

Following this discussion, i re-installed X3. Getting into the ship gave that same overpowering feeling as the first time, it's as if you were just learning to read, and the teacher gives the "Lord of the Rings" - trilogy for reading practise. X3 UI is a bit user-abusive at first, but when you learn to use it , it has some very powerful tools. For example when i was playing previously i controlled my factories and trade ships on the other side of the universe from my fighters cockpit, including buying new ships and giving them orders.

And thanks for listing all those games everyone, i'll take a look unless X3 sucks me back in, i  really want that Python Darkstar one, that someone mentioned,  was recently added to Good Old Games, they also have the Freespace games.

I'm really surprised someone beat me to Starshatter - it has barely any recognition at all. And then throwing down I've Found Her in the same post - you're taking all my suggestions!

So, yeah, there's several space sim games, with different takes on the whole thing, and it depends what angle you want to play:

If you want to be in a Fighter (and you want an actual sim):

-) I've Found Her (Babylon 5 Universe, full newtonian)

-) Starshatter: The Gathering Storm (Original IP, Dynamic Campaign, arcade/semi-newtonian/full newtonian options)

-) X-Wing Alliance (Star Wars universe, arcade flight model, sim level control options)

-) X series, X3:Terran Conflict the latest (Original IP, semi-newtonian)

Of those, the X series has the biggest fleet battles, but also has as small fights as 1v1. Starshatter is right behind that in scope, with X-Wing in the middle. I've found Her is exclusively fighter vs fighter battles, with about a dozen ships in a big fight.

Capital Ship wise, the market is sadly undersaturated:

-) Starfleet Command Series, SFC 2 being the best, but not the prettiest (Star Trek universe, real-time-turn-based board game adaptation, 2D flight plane, very complex, Isometric View)

-) Starfleet Academy series, Klingon Academy being the latest (Star Trek universe, first person, arcade flight model, rather complex)

-) X series, see above

-) Starshatter, see above

On X, X2 has the best capital ship feeling because you actually were sitting in the captains chair on a fully modelled 3D bridge. Think new Battlestar Galactica CnC sized. Sadly, the rest of the game is inferior to the latter entries in the series.

On SFC2, SFC 1 and 2 are probably the most realistic Star Trek every written - it contains seeking missile weaponry, point defense grids, mines, fighter craft and the everyday beurocracy of a Navy (refits, shipyard capacity issues, wrecking your empires budget by trying to build the biggest Dreadnaught, etc.). Which is probably the reason it is not considered canon.

I'm not going to list RTS/RTT games since, those are a more established genre, and you get a lot of space based ones.

PS.: Don't judge the X-series story by what you get presented in the games - it's an incredibly butchered version of the novelized story (which was actually written first by one of the games developers). Part of the butchering was done to make it playable to more than utter hardcore (lightspeed lag in comms and visuals, time dilation do not a fun game make), part of the butchering was done because of budget problems, and the most horrendous voice actors on the planet chosen by the publisher.

Yes W40k is huge. Stupidly huge - to an (intentionally) comical degree. Noone in their right mind would build Death Star sized ships (which housed more than a million civilians just to provide the infrastructure) - not to mention bigger ones.

They wouldn't be fun in games either - once you get to gun #100 you're already past caring about it. So I hit with 900 instead of 1000 super-mega-death-lasers? Who cares?

Marine #9640 managed to beat two opponents at the same time? Good for him, too bad he's dead and buried because there's a thousand more people involved in that boarding action. The unique moments, the nailbiters, don't exist anymore on that scale.

Though not capship (not military atleast), Northstar (Kerberos Space Trading Love Letter to the Privateer/Elite/Firefly styles) is going to have boarding actions with fully modelled interiors and individual crew members.

I like the look of X3 TC but I am going to wait until they drop Tages from it.

All of those games you listed Daton, are very good in their own right. I've played almost all of them.  One I think you guys forgot to mention was Freespace 2, which is open source. There has been a tonne of work done on the engine and its led to some AMAZING space fighter simulation. Here's a good mod link for you guys to look at: http://www.youtube.com/user/BeyondtheRedLine 

They've done some incredible stuff there. However, it seems this mod won't be coming up for awhile as there was a team dispute shortly after they won the Mod of the Year award at ModDB - which was bad news, at least for a BSG fan like me.  The members who left did make a new team and are making the following mod: http://www.moddb.com/games/diaspora
It looks like it's going to be just as good if not better than BTRL.

And for those of you that love Babylon V, I 100% recommend this mod here: http://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project   It's brilliant.

Now, for Freelancer (FL), I've been playing that game for the past 3 yrs now. There are quite a few online groups around that are really interested in modding the game. One of the most notable communities is called "The Starport". It's basically a forum where all the different FL communities get together and discuss things.  That link is found here:  http://www.the-starport.net/

For me, I am the developer of a mod called "FreeWorlds" for FL.  It's a Star Wars (SW) Total Conversion for FL.   We're trying to make the mod itself as SW canon as possible, if you're into that sort of thing.  You'll be able to fly both fighters/bombers and capital ships.  For more information about that, if you're curious, go here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/freeworlds-182/

or our developer blogs found here: http://www.freeworlds-mod.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=44

(we have a tonne of videos and screenies there for people to look at)


Hope you guys didn't mind these plugs, but I thought they'd be appropriate for the thread.

Sushisemegato he wants a starship simulator not a fighter or freighter game. At least thats the way I read it.

@Destraex: Seeing some of the games named here, like XWA, people were touching on different areas.  I thought I'd dive in a bit more of the area of fighter simulation.  As for capitals, you can fly them in FL. 

@Rackjabbit: If you liked XvT, you'll like FW 2. We're trying to reproduce XvT/XWA as much as possible, even getting ships from the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade project.  Here's a video of some of our fighters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8bhrxF5_nQ#

@Sushisemegato I just think its strange to go off on such a tangent when he has stated thats the kind of game he is trying to avoid. Hes played these games and wants to move onto something that has a real starship feel and simulation. Does FL provide anything for cap ships at all that is different? Or does it treat them as big fighters? Not angry just find it strange.

P.S. I'm sorry but I think an FL Star Wars mod would make me miss my XWA/XvsTie shield controls and other ships systems too much. FTL is just too simple. Another thing I used to hate about FL was the spin BS that went on everytime a fight ensued, it drove me nuts. I mean you needed to be in third person mode to see everything and in that mode the ships look absolutely silly and unbelieveable when they turn. I mean no thusters just a slight movement of the model to indicate its doing ww2 style turns.

 Looks good though

@Legerdemain As for Starshatter. To be really honest i'd have to play it a whole lot more to answer your questions on AI Leger. I find the cap ship controls to be fine though, no real problem with it, but its no childs play, it does take a bit of learning. I would say its got the same learning curve as the more complex craft in XWA or xwing. Cap ship combat is certainly not difficult but you do need to learn how to control your squadron of ships properly.

Whatever else you'd like to know i'd be happy to tell. If you want pics of anything too just let me know. I can even do a small review if your really keen.

In the mean time here is some starshatter shots I took on my PC. Just to show you a bit more. Obviously their are management and other planning/universe screens to show if your interested.

ok here are some of the management screens to show you what kind of depth the game gives. Their are people talking in briefings and during missions. But thier is something a little stale about it as it does not really seem to flow, mods have got this stage right though. The Battlestar mod especially surprised me with its ability to make me feel like I was there. There are cutscenes occasionally.

The game also allows you to fly down to planets to assault the surface! Different physics apply here.

Yes, that's one of the best Capital ship sims - most of which are Star Trek, sadly (a little more variety would be nice). Hard to find though - Bridge Commander has become sort of a cult classic, which makes it quite expensive.

You really shouldnt pretend to understand the topic if its readily apparent that you have no clue. nintendogs,Sims,Mechwarrior/commander,wing commander,tie fighter are just a few off "simulators" off the top of mainstream AAA simulators that tended to sell millions of copies each. So i would have to say you are WRONG repeat WRONG. The genre in itself isnt niche and has multiple examples of million box seller franchises throughout its history. This is also completely ignoring strategy simulators" like the civilization series and car driving.

its online download like steam and no DRM I know of

You get it here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/334/details/Starshatter.-.The.Gathering.Storm