Vedrics anti-dumpster suggestion list version 1.00

from Stardock Forums
1. Waypoints
Zooming to every planet when a ship is finished simply to take it out of orbit is a drag (this has been stated many times already). Whats worse is the fact you arent finished here. You must next, AGAIN, cycle through each ship to select a destination. Cant believe this stuff makes it through final..

2. Sensors research
This aspect could have been much more evolved with more incremental steps between starting range and the mid-late game message "your sensor range has increased". This should be removed and several levels of tech added.

3. Propulsion
Biggest map ive finished was "large". I could not stop thinking I need drives atleast 4x more advanced than the max. If anything could speed up the late game slag for conquest monkeys its this. Several more levels could be interesting.

4. Stack bonus
Large fleets of smaller ships should be able to defeat a single capital ship. As things are now (overpowered resources withstanding) building smaller ships is a total waste. MOO1 was amaizing in this respect. Considering the lack of innovation in the genre its a shame most people forget MOO1 and expect "Civilization in space" type design. I would start with stack bonuses..

5. Military resources
Way too overpowered. If you luck into a majority of these.. quit the game and start again since youve already won. The impact of these relative to other resources is massive. Whats the first thing you seek and destroy when threatened by a superior force?? RED CONES. Its not strategy simply because its not a tactical choice. You must take these out or watch many of your "equal class" ships be wiped out by a single enemy ship.

6. Tactical combat
Ive read the development pros and cons but goodness guys... You have a tactical map already! The whole friggin galaxy is a tactical map. I would love to see more tactical options played out on the galactic map between ships. Weapon range, missiles, special features etc.. All of the things that made MOO1 and other games great in tactical combat could be a part of the GalCiv galactic map. No need to zoom or a seperate mode of conflict. Combined with the speed and sensor suggestions large maps and above would become serious tactical playgrounds. You're welcome..

7. Govs
Cues would be easier to deal with on a planet by planet basis. I would implement a shift+click cue method. Simple yet effective. Hold down shift and start clicking social projects. First click = first built and so on. Form follows function and stuff...

These are just the most obvious issues that come to mind. I could go on forever simply because I am a massive junkie when it comes to good games. I actually have revolutionary ideas about this genre but would rather work on them with a team not just give them away freely. :)

Feel free to add on, comment, delete, re-post in new thread, call me bad names for not being a complete fanboy or whatever. It wont bother me :)

V
533 views 17 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Wow. Yet another MOO-fanboy who fails to understand the point of GalCiv and persists in engaging in a dick-size contest, pitting GalCiv vs. his delusions of what MOO3 should have been like. 'Cept this one has a REALLY big mouth.

Neeeeeeeeeeext....
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
3. I'd be careful with upping engine speed too much in this game- it's already tough enough to predict where in the heck a speed 8 AI Dreadnought is gonna go next... I suggest you play with local powers and fleets as yur style rather than expecting supermobility. I rather like the limits to speed.

4. no thanks. The stack bonus (if any is ever added) should not take away the fun of capitol ships.

5. Unless you control the economy ones and he the cones... then you can pump out more ships than he and take him out. The red cones aren't as powerful as you may think. What AI level you playing at? I find the bright AI quite capable of maximizing its economy to combat any local fighting superiority I may have.

6. interesting idea, but I think it would nee to be implemented just right. Again, no thanks to your engine increase idea though, so you're "you're welcome" is premature IMO.


~SDC~
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, instead of cursing at him for not being a huge fan, let's simply answer him:

1) Waypoints
Yes, this has been suggested several times already. But if the system tells you that a ship is finished, it takes you to the planet anyway, and you can immediately launch the ship from there, then click NEXT to go to the next planet with a new ship. No big deal in my book.

2) Sensors
I don't see the point. Simply build a couple of sats, place them all over the galaxy, and you're done. Besides, the limited sensor range makes life interesting :)

3) Propulsion
I haven't experienced 'late game slag' - if you could elaborate? And large galaxies are, well, large. Of course it'll take a time to travel through it...

4) Stack Bonus
Hm, yes. Not a bad idea, but I personally prefere it as it is.

5) Military Resources
Well, feel free to attack the AI if it has any military resources. If you find the game too easy after grabbing some for yourself, up the difficulty. In 'Beginner' you can really stomp the AI with them, yes.

6) Tactical Combat
Nope. This is more like 'Civilization' than 'SEIV'. No tactical, don't try to talk us into it ;)

7) Govs
I've always hated gouvernors - except here. They're actually useful! Could be good to have a few more, but usually it works out just fine.

8) Call me bad names
Non-fanboy! Non-fanboy! LOL

Seriously, though, it's little use to suggest changes which would change the entire character of the game. It's a lot like 'Civilization in Space', so any suggestions should follow this route.

If you don't like this type of game (I thought I didn't, but am actually enjoying this a lot), get something different, like MOO2 (bargain bin) or SEIV (fun game).

Me, I'm off to spread tears, blood and terror throughout the universe...
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
"Wow. Yet another MOO-fanboy"

Can we all give the outright hatred of MOO3 fans a break? This game drew a LOT of people from MOO3 (between the ad for GalCiv in the MOO3 box, and the erm, shoddy, quality of MOO3, it's hardly surprising)... I'm one of them. As such, there are going to be a lot of people playing GalCiv that have a history playing MOO, and it's only natural that they're going to miss some of their favourite features from ye olden dayes. :) The guy made some good suggestions, and the only MOO game he referenced was MOO1, not MOO3, so insulting him is hardly justified.

Re: the suggestions:

"Zooming to every planet when a ship is finished simply to take it out of orbit is a drag"
You realize you can take them out of orbit at the same time as the game automatically cycles you around the different planets to adjust the build queues? Once I realized I could do that, it saved a whole level of micromanagement. :)

"2. Sensors research"
Yeah, if they're looking to add some techs, this one area that's a little sparse. That said, there is the Eyes of the Universe wonder if you want to see a lot farther. :)

"3. Propulsion"
Two words: Gravity Accelerators

"4. Stack bonus"
Agreed.

"5. Military resources"
Can't say they've caused me a particular problem. Playing on Painful, and I'm still able to wage war against the AI quite well.

"6) Tactical Combat"
There's nothing wrong with tac combat per se, but I think asking for it here is a bit unrealistic. The amount of work that would have to be done on combat statistics and the game engine to create MOO-style tactical combat (which sounds like what you want) would practically require creating a whole new game. This is one of those issues that you just have to accept: the game doesn't have tactical combat. It was never promised, and it's been that way from day one. If a lack of tac combat is deal breaker, go back to MOO2/3.

- Ash

~SDC~
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Verdic: Thanks for the suggestons. I'll respond to the one's I'm more knowledgable of.

1. In the short term, we're going to be adding a "Auto-Launch Completed Ships" Toggle to the Planet Screen, allowing the player to set planets where the completed ships...well..auto-launch ;) This'll reduce the amount of button clicking to get ships out of orbit. Way points are definatly on the list...we jsut have to get some of the smaller, play-balancing bugs out of the game before major features are implemented.

4. I wouldn't mind seeing something along these lines. However, keep in mind that anything the play can do, the AI will also have to do. Weighing out the pros/cons of having a diverse fleet vs a single powerful fleet and gets bonuses wouldn't always be easy (mastly late game).

6. Eventually implementing more tactical way of battling is being talked about around the office. Like you said, It'd all take place on the main map, but it'd have to be done in a way where battles don't become tedius (you've played a large galaxy, so im sure you've had turns with over 20 battles). It's something that will have to be discussed.

7. I disagree. When you have 40+ planets to deal with, It's more straightforward (IMHO) to say "use the governor for new colonies" and leave the rest up to the preset list. To have to micro each planet's build list would be a PITA, and to add the functionality of a Per-Planet Gueue AS WELL as keep the functionaly of the governors would just cause confusion, I think.

Fell free to respond with any counter-points. ;)

~SDC~
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Wow, I'm shocked, re: tactical battles. I thought that would be the one thing you'd be staying away from.

Out of the bunch, the stack bonus is the one I'd like to see. Right now, the only way to beat an enemy is with a tech advantage. You should be able to effectively beat him with a swarm (to a point).

~SDC~
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree with Geoelectric, a swarm should at least be 'somewhat' useful.

An instant idea: Every ship in a stack destroys 1 HP of the attacker. That said you could have 60 Star Fighters to kill one Overlord, which would be fair considering the costs (60 Star Fighters cost 1800bc, 1 Overlord 1500bc). Of course this needs to be fleshed out. Only some thoughts.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I don't like the stack bonus at all- it would make it tedious having to figure out jsut how to make a stack and what bonus would come out of it. The simple way it is now is elegent and creates natural sophistication- do you escort that slow moving low defense capital ship? Or rely on greater sensor range, slower moves to detect and attack first with it? etc...

~SDC~
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
First of all lets get one thing straight. I havent even played MOO3 and have no desire to do so. Yes MOO1 still is my favorite. It had a special balance many new games are lacking. If this makes me a MOO fanboy then fine. If you somehow think this lessens the validity of my suggestions then you're a fool. I now play GalCiv. So I am here on the GalCiv forum. Simple as that.

About the stack bonus. I suggest this simply as a way for larger fleets of smaller ships to compete. Nothing more. People would still want to build the best ships if they could. What this would do is open up a "scramble" strategy option if you're ever caught off guard and see a superior enemy fleet heading your way. You could get your lesser planets involved and in just a turn or two have a nice sized fleet of fighters and corvettes. The key is the ability of your lesser planets to play a role in the defense because they can build lesser ships in a reasonable time.

BoogieBac: Its good to hear you are looking into changes similiar to what ive suggested here. If the auto-launch works with a waypoints system when implemented it would eliminate alot of the destination orders given on the main map. Making things move flow even smoother. Dealing with constructors would become less tedious for example.

Also good to hear you guys are talking about a more tactical way of doing battle. In my experience from large maps, the total number of ships is never so large that tactical combat options would present the player with a massive laundry list of micro. For example in my current game (large map) I have two fronts. Actually its two key sectors from which the main body of my two fleets is based. All of my fights happen around these two sectors. The AI is drained of resources now so fights are

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
oops I was checking my email and accidently hit submit.

anyway, fights now happen only as the AI can send a ship or two in my direction. I took out the three military resources Im aware of and claimed them for myself so a single ship of mine can take down on average about 4 of their ships before I recall it for repair.

I guess what im saying is I havent seen a situation where tactical oriented combat would have been a chore.

Thx for the reply, V
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm with Vedric on the stack thing. I don't want a hugely complicated mechanic, but the way things are now, there's zero advantage to stacking whatsoever. Really, it should be something along the lines of all attacking ships do damage to the defender, whereas the defender picks or autopicks one ship to defend and do damage against. The defender's defense modifier could be rolled once and applied to all ships, or rolled once for each attacker. Not sure which would be more fair. If that weights things too heavily towards stacks, let the helper ships attack at a reduced hitpoint rate (but not another rounded-down percentage, please :P)

~SDC~
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Vedrics as you can see the developers and other users are open to suggestions. While at the same time enjoying what the game already is. It is fun to explore what a game might become as we all help it evolve. But in the mean time could you possibly post your threads titles with a possitive attitude? It would be much appreciated. Thank you.

~SDC~
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Humm... I suppose there are some people not thinking this stack thing through. Think about it. You say, let us stack our small ships to beat up the big AI ones! But... that means the AI will just stack his ships. Then it will be stack versus stack, and you still end up where you started. Small ships stack sucking against big/mixed stack.

The Balance that MoO1 had was in the cost of small ships. You could have all your smaller worlds cranking out small ships, and when they were massed together, they'd inflict damage. This was truly MoO1's 'fighter' equivalent. It worked WELL. If your marginal worlds could spit out 4 corvettes in a turn, you'd have the same effect in GalCiv. Since they cannot...
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
Oh yeah... Waypoints could prove useful. Auto launch would save 2 clicks, which is always nice. When I figured out I could launch from the Planet screen on the Next/Done cycle... Priceless. :D

I'll have to continue to think about this changing the basic fighting means on the galaxy map. Would that be like, shooting from more then one square away? Having Star Bases that could launch attacks for a fair distance around them? That sort of tactical considerations? Humm...

You know, in MoO1, one of the basic strategy most evolved was going extra range, and getting pusher rays. This kept the enemy from being able to close the distance to shoot you with their rays. One ship could hold off fleets of 25,000 ships like that. Adding in ranged tactical type combat could really effect the play of the game. Like... keep up speed, so you can duck into your extended firing range (but out of theirs), fire until they are dead. Or duck out and repeat with next ship (cavalry style). Not sure that would improve the fun of the game... :notsure:
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
Oh, I'm quite aware that the AI could use the tactic, too. Again, right now there's a huge tech advantage, particularly for defenders (who get an attack bonus of a percentage of their high defense). It's just that when I group 5 corvettes and a couple of battleships, having them -all- die against one orbiting BattleAxe just isn't right, and that's fairly typical.

~SDC~
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
I am not absolutely shure about this (im normaly not the fighter type), but when you stack twenty ships and attack with them, they only get single attacks so actually stacking is a backdraw. Example:
I have lots of battleAxes (lets say 20 but they are really slow, so I upped them via tech to three moves per turn) now I attack a minor race, they have around 9 corvettes in orbit. If I attack with all these Axes stacked, then I will be able to attack exactly three times. Each time destroying one corvette. now all ships in the stack have moved three times. but if I take one ship after another from the stack and attack with only that one, repeating it for each ship, I get (all together) 180 attacks (compared to three!)
my point is: when stacked my ships won't kill all ships and I can't invade the planet, If I move in each after another, then they will fall this turn.
But be aware, stacked Transporter are important for a successfull burnination!

~SDC~