Turtling!! w/ Replay

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1u4k6x
from Sins Forums

Just finished a 3 hour 3v3 on a 30ish planet map.  It was JohnJames, myself, and an AI vs KL3MZ, Shadowhal, and Commander Sheperd.

Replay Link:  http://www.sendspace.com/file/1u4k6x

Brief Synopsis:

After the initial expansion, KL3MZ managed to deflect my assault and get a Starbase up.  Shadowhal also reinforced KL3MZ SB (Starbase) with one of his own.  JJ was assisting with my attack a bit, but mostly used this as an opportunity to get more planets unopposed, but we couldn't make headway and had to pull back.  JJ lost a couple of his farthest expansions and also his first capital when he tried to run it back to me and it got stuck by a PJI next to KL3MZ nasty starbase.

Commander Sheperd was isolated from his allies, but was doing ok at slowly killing the AI.  JJ & I used our caps to hit his rear flank (JJ had built 2 more).  Since we were both Vasari, and I had levelled my cap to 6 in my failed assaults, we slowly picked apart Sheperd's rear flank and I started eating worlds with the Evacuator.  Sheperd moved his fleet back, allowing the AI to recover its losses.  He did get a Starbase up in his HW, with repair bays and he had mines too.  It took quite a while and we had to bring in a small fleet, but we eventually killed Sheperd off.  I went RA while this was happening.

Meanwhile, Shadowhal and the AI were kind of at an Impasse, and KL3MZ was turtled up with massively powerful starbases, but couldn't really attack, assuming he even wanted to, because I had a big fleet nearby, and JJ had a smaller fleet.

JJ attacked one of Shadowhal's undefended worlds, and skirmished with Shadowhal, eventually drawing back towards my side of the map.  This allowed the AI to start making progress on Shadowhal.

JJ and I had built Kosturas at this point, and we started using them to assault KL3MZ strongholds.  Well, I actually used one shot to create a phase node and sent 1/3 of my fleet behind KL3MZ lines to take out his backline worlds, including his HW.  JJ fought Shadowhal and KL3MZ at one world while I fought the Starbases under Shadowhal carrier coverage at another, and continued to clean up back line worlds.  The AI was eating up Shadowhal's worlds at this point.

Finally we won.  B)

 

Major Techs and strategies used, as best I could tell:

Carriers were very popular, of course!
Phase Jump Inhibitors and tons of Repair
Mines were used by JJ and Sheperd, and they scored some kills at times.
Starbases were used by everybody.  KL3MZ & Shadowhal had massively upgraded ones on defense.  I only built one for Offense to help crack KL3MZ super Starbase. 
Kostura was used by JJ & myself.  I had 4, JJ had more than me.
I used Returning Armada

 

From a balance perspective, I think everything works great and did what it is supposed to do.  I have no problems with mines in this build.  I lost some ships on Sheperd's while trying to maneuver them away from his Starbase.  JJ got some kills with them too..probably more than I saw, because JJ is a bastard with mines.  I also put a scout led fleet with 2 flaks on cleanup duty in a system, came back, and they had cleaned up the enemy mines like a champ!

The upgraded Starbases are enormously powerful and extremely hard to siege when backed by fleet giving them proper air cover, or when nestled between repair bays and mine fields.  KL3MZ chokepoints were largely unassailable until JJ & I made multiple Kostura and fired shot after shot at the defending worlds to break the back of the fleets and defenses when we started our assaults (we hit one of his worlds with probably about 15+ Kostura strikes over 30 minutes).

The big observation here is that the game requires a lot more micromanagement and planning.  Turtling makes someone very hard to kill until advanced fleets and units can be deployed.  After they had spent a large amount on their starbases, they lacked the power to really threaten JJ or myself, but we couldn't attack them either.  A hardcore turtle strategy is not going to win you the game unless you have some plan to make forward progress.  It could be very useful for people who have to hold out until their allies can rescue them.

I think Entrenchment is going to be great for single player, but makes for very long, time consuming multiplayer games.  This game took 2 hours 57 minutes -- for a single star 3v3 with 30ish planets!  Both JJ and I were Vasari, but it might be important in future games to make sure someone is playing TEC or Advent to get access to Torpedos.

 

We also got lucky with no minidump this game, which I think might be because JJ hosts on a very powerful computer.  Not positive here, because my other Entrenchment games have eventually ended with minidumps after a long amount of time.

 

2,077 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

good write-up, hard to add anything to it. I agree that this map size, the game did take a bit too long. up to 2 hours is fine, but this was more than stretching it. which was of course due to the massive entrenchment on our side.

also agree that in team games at least one player should have a race with anti structure ships. I only had a short offensive phase, but there I used some ogrovs and I was quite pleased with the result (though the actual battle was a horrible mess on my part). I also wondered in retrospection why any of you never bothered to get a starbase with a stabeliser up near my front. it probably can be spared from a resource perspective and it would have made it very difficult for me to assault the ai and convenient for you to attack my flank. it might have pinned me in place permanently.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

also agree that in team games at least one player should have a race with anti structure ships. I only had a short offensive phase, but there I used some ogrovs and I was quite pleased with the result (though the actual battle was a horrible mess on my part). I also wondered in retrospection why any of you never bothered to get a starbase with a stabeliser up near my front. it probably can be spared from a resource perspective and it would have made it very difficult for me to assault the ai and convenient for you to attack my flank. it might have pinned me in place permanently.
End of quote

 

Well....we WERE kind of busy picking at Commander Sheperd.  We were using very limited amounts of ships to pick at him, and he was dug in somewhat with mines and mid-size starbases.  It is the AI's job to take some hits for the team.  Sheperd was actually doing pretty welll against it early on, but it was getting kind of big by the time you fought it.  We were just happy to get back across the map in time before you started making headway.  Our other fleets were keeping KL3MZ under control so he didn't raid us with his carrier fleet.

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 2

also agree that in team games at least one player should have a race with anti structure ships. I only had a short offensive phase, but there I used some ogrovs and I was quite pleased with the result (though the actual battle was a horrible mess on my part). I also wondered in retrospection why any of you never bothered to get a starbase with a stabeliser up near my front. it probably can be spared from a resource perspective and it would have made it very difficult for me to assault the ai and convenient for you to attack my flank. it might have pinned me in place permanently.
 

Well....we WERE kind of busy picking at Commander Sheperd.  We were using very limited amounts of ships to pick at him, and he was dug in somewhat with mines and mid-size starbases.  It is the AI's job to take some hits for the team.  Sheperd was actually doing pretty welll against it early on, but it was getting kind of big by the time you fought it.  We were just happy to get back across the map in time before you started making headway.  Our other fleets were keeping KL3MZ under control so he didn't raid us with his carrier fleet.
End of Cykur's quote

alright. always interesting to hear the other side of the game. 'ts been a long time since I had such a nice and big team game, but I think it was pretty cool for all of us. pitty we lost, but ... meh.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Jesus, 3 hours! OH god.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Was this a beta 2.5? Cause I just watched replay it seemed odd to me Cykur did not colonzie the Ice planet next ot his HW then minidump.  If this is beta 2.5 and we are still getting messed up replays I am seriously going to f*&^in lose it!

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Astax, reply 5
Was this a beta 2.5? Cause I just watched replay it seemed odd to me Cykur did not colonzie the Ice planet next ot his HW then minidump.  If this is beta 2.5 and we are still getting messed up replays I am seriously going to f*&^in lose it!
End of Astax's quote

check out the date this thread was posted and the date the 2.5 changelog was posted. it will tell you that it cannot possibly be 2.5. ;)

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Ok well if osmeone has 2.5 replay, please share