A Novel Idea: The Science Vessel - a suggestion for the 2nd expansion

from Sins Forums

 

 

The Massive Terran Science Vessel... remember StarCraft? The awesome great unique design... It's ability to reward you for your micro. I see massive potential for a Science Vessel ship in this game and hopefully for TEC, they'll incorporate the original design of the ship in Starcraft into this game, you just gotta love that ship design! It's like a mobile space station and "really" looks and feels like a science station/vessel.   I posted this idea in another thread, but I felt this idea deserved it own thread! 

The Science Vessel will be a mobile Civic OR Military Lab (you get to choose, and it will count towards your total lab count) costing moderately more than a regular immobile science lab 900 credits, 150 metal, 300 crystal (it'll be quite expensive making this thing quite an investment, and hence non-spammable). It will have to be researched in the prototype tech tree but it should be made availiable relatively early (requirements 1 labs of any kind to research Science Vessels) It should have decent shields and hull points considering this thing is massive, it should get more shields and hull than the protev colony ship, but it does not have any weapons and has an antimatter capacity of 170. 

All Science Vessels (regardless of Civic or Military) will get:

1 - Sensor Outpost. An small station able to be constructed, 1 per max system, regardless of any logistics, thus allowing it to be made in uncolonizable asteriod belts or nebulas allowing permanent line of sight in the entire gravity well and letting you see what ships are jumping in and out of that gravity well. (Cost 50 credits, 25 metal, 25 crystal) with about the same hp as a obital mine. Cost 70 Antimatter.    

2 - Sensor Eye. Like the Advent Relevalation BC's Far Sight ability, it would let you see target planet (max range of 4 planets away, unlike Far Sight) for 40 seconds. Costs 90 antimatter.   

In addition, the science vessel becomes specialized depending on which type you chose to construct, this can be a very strategic choice as teching/eco player would prefer the Civic while militant players would choose the military science vessel. The Civic Science Lab Vessel would get: (Note all abilities would cost anti-matter)

1 - Ability called: "Colonization Efforts" identical to the Advent Progenitor Mothership's ability without the ability to actually colonize. It reduces all planetary development costs by 20% for a duration of 60 seconds. Costs 170 Antimatter. (max) This can be a huge economic boost by making all your obital construction and planet upgrades cheaper, and is reason enough to get the civic version of the Science Vessel. 

2 - An ability named "Planetary Exploration" that can get the "Explore Planet lv. 1" (still need to get the planet upgrade for lv. 2) on your planets to find artifacts/planet bonuses with its special ability. There will be a time duration for it to complete its analysis of 70 seconds (it is stationary during this time). Costs 125 Antimatter. 

3 - a special ability "Detailed Planetary Anaylsis" costing credits (125 credits, 25 crystal) each time you use it to allow a volcanic/ice planet to be able to be colonized without having the civic research. The cost each time would still make getting the civic research better in the long run. Costs 100 Antimatter, duration to complete analysis 40 secs. 

     LOGIC for this : Every planet is very unique, and each planet will have their differences from others, what this ability represents is the ability of cartographers and terraformers to tailor create their colonization techiques for each         individual planet by doing a "detailed analysis" of a particular planet letting them colonize that particular planet due to them having studied it extensively over a period of time. In game purposes, this would allow some that made a military lab initially to get a Civic Science Vessel (which will count as a Civic Science Lab) and circumvent temporarily the research requirements to colonize a Ice World. He however still does want the real civic research eventually to max out his Civilain infrastructure and get planet-type wide benefits. 

4 - Ability:"Trade Route Analysis" that costs credits (125 credits, 25 crystal) allowing the planet to build 1 Trade port despite having it logistics slot maxed out already. This means a trade port can even be created in uncolonizable asteroid belts, dead roids, and nebulas, solving that trade route connecting problem! Obital Commerce must have already been researched to unlock this ability. The each-time cost, and being limited to only building the Trade Port makes logistics slot purchase more attractive in the long run. Costs 100 Antimatter, duration to complete 40 secs to complete.

LOGIC for this : Quite often players run out of logistics slots for a trade port, or want to make a trade port at a dead roid to extend their trade routes. This makes it possible thru the same reasoning that Detailed Planetary Analysis makes : a intensive survey this time by trade analysts and logisticians on constructing a trade port in what otherwise would be an un-constructable location. This ability would be very helpful in fixing trade routes and temporary extending the logistics point by 1 for a trade port (as often all you want is a extra trade port in obit) 

5 - Ability: "Deep-Space Mining Survey" that costs (100 credits, 75 crystal) allowing a Orbital Refinery to be made regardless of logistics slots available, even in uncolonizable asteriod belts with metal/crystal mines. Can be repeated again and again each time with its one-use cost to build the max of 4 obital refinaries at a sector with no logistics points. Costs 100 Antimatter, duration of 40 secs to complete (while remaining stationary) 

6 - Ability: "Rapid Manufacturing" which only costs antimatter, increases all construction within its radius by 25% cooldown will be 170 (max) seconds, cost 160 antimatter lasting 45 seconds. This is like the Sova's utimate ability with the same name but has a longer cooldown, shorter duration, and costs more antimatter. 

The Military Lab Science Vessels would get:

1. - "EMP Burst" Drains the anti-matter (-50%) and a portion of the shields (a flat -100) of all enemy ships inside the targetted radius. Devastating against Advent and Vasari whose Shields are high and advanced. Only costs Anti-matter. Targetted ships that were hit in the shockwave radius cannot phase jump for 25 seconds. Costs 170 Antimatter. (max)

2. - "Projected Defense Shields" Targetted friendly ship will receive -75% less dmg to its shields and hull points for 55 seconds. This is very similar to the Kol battleship's Adaptive forcefield and can complement the Dunov's Shield Restore ability. Costs 170 Antimatter (max) 

3. - Magnetize, Same as the Dunov's ability, and it makes much more sense for a Science Vessel to be able to do this. Causes all enemy strike craft to inside a radius (smaller than the Dunov) to violently crash into the Science vessel with strike craft causing 15 points of dmg upon impact. Costs 70 Antimatter.

4. - Anti-matter Restore, same as the Dunov's ability for Anti-matter instead of shields. It restores 110 points of Anti-matter to 1 targetted ship. Costs 70 Antimatter.

5. - Planetary Assault Coordination, costs 125 antimatter. Speeds up dmg to planet by ships in its radius thru planetary bombardment by 20% in a duration of 50 seconds. Should be awesome to help speed up taking of enemy planets.  

Due to the prohibitive cost and fact it is unarmed, they will be limited to a small number. Also all their abilities take micro-management rewarding good science vessel management!the military SV will be very very useful in a battle complementing other capital ships, while I know I want a Civic one as well. SV will be a support ship fan's dreamboat.

This idea would rock major. I'd appreciate feedback and additional ideas to improve the GOAL of getting this ship into the 2nd expansion! Who is with me? Hopefully the people at Ironclad will read this!  Ironclad feel free to individualize each science vessel for each faction. I designed the above abilities with the TEC style and feel in mind! 

NOTE: I'd already posted this in the general discussion forums, but I wanted the developers to take a look at it here in the beta forum for the next expasions.

 

3,083 views 3 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Really good idea, though I imagine that the # of abilities proposed would have to be wittled down. Some of them are really heavy on the micro side, I find.. and would make for a bit of a headache with the tech-tree (we don't, after all, want it to become a book!). I like the idea in principal but think it needs to be refined to maybe 3 key abilities, stronger ones perhaps on the civic side and more passive... Also, an antimatter of 170 seems a little low given its lack of weapons.. maybe base 250 would be better?

One thing I would like to throw in is maybe the prospect of having it be a 3-level vessel(/mobile-station?) that accumulates experience (through time spent researching) slowly over time, rather than through combat. This would make a bit of a rush to get the first science vessel, and encourage their defence and limited use in-fleet. (subsequently, maybe make them real-durable). Each level provides slightly more antimatter, but no other strength upgrades; every upgrade also provides a new one of the skills mentioned (like cap ships). Maybe, if the abilities merit it, you could make it a 10-level thing, with abilities being upgradable to different levels in themselves and then a 'super' ability.. but I think it may be nice not to have them so closely emulate cap ships, and to have the choice kinda made for you at each level (x- is the tier-one upgrade, y is the tier-two upgrade... maybe even make them somehow follow from one another logically?)

These are my suggestions.. I hope this idea gets implemented, I think it is a really good one. (though I hope it wouldn't take them too far off track with their diplomacy theme, which I am REALLY looking forward to being drawn out more). Perhaps, to make it correspond to the diplomacy theme one of the abilities for the civics tree could be a 'diplomatic mission' (TEC) where the ship goes to an enemy/neutral/allied grav well and increases alliegance by 1 point every 20 seconds, while slowly draining your credits... 'persuasive negotiations' (Advent) where civic vessel decreases the 'alliegance cost' of settling a ceasefire/trade agreement/peace treaty... 'alienate diplomats' (Vasari) where civic station drops into enemy grav well and uses this ability (for maybe takes 30-60 secs to 'work' -- so needs cover) to lower the alliegance of all other factions to targeted faction by 5-10%? ... Just throwing my piece in, would love to hear more thoughts on this thread, as I really like this idea!

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I like the concept, but I think there may be a bit too much involved.  Perhaps a simpler approach would be to modify the way artifacts are handled: give each planet a seperate "advanced research" rating, indicative of the unique resources and environments available there (that would be the explanation, functionally it would just be a random number).  If you build a science vessel and park it in the grav well (a free ability that you activate for the ship, immobilizing it while engaging in research), there's a percentage chance modified by that planet's rating of uncovering an artifact every X number of minutes.  Once an artifact is found, the research potential for that planet would be exhausted and you'd want to move on to the next.

Still, with some tweaking to the OP would result in an interesting gaming experience.  Either way, I'd be happy.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Bad and wrong in too many ways.

 

Aside from taking sway rather important things like "proper empire management" by circumventing all the limitations that are in place (aka giving up one thing for another).

The Military variant can only be described as "lol, op" (yay, al lthe cool abilitys others shipos have to level up for and they cost a small fortune too) while the civil variant is activly destroying the strategy part of the game by relieving you from the "stress" of proper empire managment (aka planning your expansion with some care, thinking about building placement and slot usage). Oh and by making it avaiable that early you basicly circumvent the whole Research speed bump, making tradeports and refinerys avaiable for basicly free, utterly negating a factions advantage or disadvantage.

 

 

And lastly: MICRO IS BAD!

 

I'm the supreme ruler of my forces, not a lowly fckn fleet captain. I give the order to my fleet "go there, kill that" and i expect my fleet to do it to the best of its ability. I put all the pieces in place, its not my job of moving them once the carnage ensues. Thats the fleet captains job.

I refuse to hold hands with single ships bcause the game designer neglected giving them the neccesary intelligence to behave as i need them to.

 

If you like micro, go to games that have put that "feature" onto their flag, upholding it fiercely in a sad attempt to hide bad gamedesign behind a wall of tasks the player has to handle all at once.