Help! with early game economics
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Hello all. I am back for MORE advice from the skilled players out there. Where I'm at now, I'm playing on Intelligent and I win sometimes, but more often not. I think this is primarily because something is wrong with my economic development plans. Somehow the computer is still doing much better economically than me, and by a huge margin. If you want to see the stuff I'll talk about first hand, the saved game is here:
http://www.restorethepledge.com/rapacity/GalCiv/econotarians.zip
I have gotten pretty good at out-expanding the computers. In this game, I creamed them. I have 14 worlds to the Altarian's 8, then it's Torians about 5 (including one or two in the unexplored upper right), Yor 3, Arceans 2, and Drengin 1 (unexplored lower left, the unexplored lower right has a couple of worlds not yet claimed). So I have about 40% or the worlds - double my equal share of 1/5. I also THOUGHT that I had gotten good at early game development. Anybody involved in the previous thread I started may remember that the problem I had before was that I wasn't running my economy hard enough. I run it harder now, but if you look at this saved game you will see that I am still obviously doing something wrong. The Altarian's graphs are intersecting with mine even though I should be way ahead by now.
As I said before, I have more worlds. Last time it turned out that this was availing me nothing because I wasn't taxing much. But if you look at the Alatarian's (a) pop. growth chart and (b) morale on his worlds, you will see that he isn't taxing much. Yet he is beating me in pop. growth and keeping right along on economy, technology, and manufacturing. And even if you crank my tax rate up so that my morale drops to around 65% you'll see that it doesn't get you much ahead.
It is a complete mystery to me how this is happening. Not only do I have more worlds, but I am ahead of him in developing them. Every single one already has soil enrichment, a banking center, and improved environment. My best class is 21, his best class is 18. My worst class is 18, his worst class is 16. My average class is 18.9, his average class is 17.4. The only place he's beating me is in population, and there not by much.
Compare a couple of worlds.
Alva I (The Company): Class 19, Population 651, Morale 76, Revenue 17, Spending 16
Wardel III (The Altarian Republic): Class 17, Population 671, Morale 100, Revenue 15, Spending 14
Alva I is comparable to other worlds in my empire, indicating that this specific case is not because of an event penalty. Check Zasica II, for instance (class 19, pop. 742, mrl. 72, rev. 17, spd. 16).
I have a higher class by two and similar population, but his morale is much higher. From that it should be apparent that my tax level is set higher. Yet despite the higher class and higher taxes, Alva I is barely making a penny more than Wardel III. Browse around and you'll see this pattern repeated all over the two empires. So I don't think it's simply an issue of me not taxing enough. If you check the population growth charts you'll see that mine is following right along with the bundle of lines defined by the computer players' charts. Something I haven't figured out must be giving him an edge.
Also mysterious to me is how his economy is that good even WITH that edge. The total revenue from his planets is 144. Mine is 226, or more than half again as much, at the current tax level. Crank the taxes until approval rating becomes 64, by the way, and it only increases to 239, so that is obviously not the issue. But in any case it appears to be way higher. Yet he is keeping right along with me. So I am confused about two things. First, why do his worlds provide a better tax rate/revenue ratio, and second, why is his economy as good as mine when his revenue sum is way lower?
There are several possibilities I have already considered and discarded. It cannot be because of trade. I already have one trade route up. It's a decent trade route and at this point in the game it is only returning a few BC. Even if he has both routes up, which I doubt (since I always beat the computer to establishing trade routes... like if you look at my trade screen, you'll see that none of the computers have run routes to me yet), he still shouldn't be getting THAT much out of them.
It shouldn't be because of tribute, unless I'm missing something. It's simply too early in the game. He does have the highest chart, but it is a flatline chart and not very high like everybody else's, since nobody is cranking out real ships yet. Unless he has a pile of ships flying around that I can't see, his entire fleet appears to consist of 5 defenders and a scout. I haven't received any demands from him or heard any rumors that people are paying him. If you go talk to him you'll see that he doesn't even have corvette technology.
I doubt it's because of bonuses. I have an economics bonus of +26% and a morale bonus of +28%, so even if his are higher, they can't be THAT much higher. He positively is not getting big bonuses from resources. If you'll look at the map you'll see that at this point in the game there are plenty of resources that haven't even been claimed. And if you go talk to him, you'll see that he doesn't even have interstellar refining technology. Besides, I think bonuses are incorporated into the planetary revenue values, so it should be apparent from them if he has huge bonuses. Conceivably that does explain why he seems to eek more out of his planets, but 226 is still a lot higher than 144, according to my calculator.
It's not because of trade goods. I still haven't figured out whether the computer will lease those, but in any event nobody has developed any in the current game. And it's not because of government. We are both imperialisms, thanks to a recent United Planets ruling (that's what caused the sudden dip in my chart).
So I am at a complete loss. He gets more revenue out of worse worlds with a lower tax rate, and more value out of his revenue. By GIGANTIC factors. If you run a few turns you'll see where this trend is going. Once he puts soil enrichment and habitat improvement on his worlds he blows me out of the water. I could go on. He appears to get bonuses in a number of other regards. Play some more turns, and you'll not only watch your economy struggle with his for dominance, but you'll watch him keep pace with you while cranking out constructors and warships en masse and at a phenomenal rate, while you have to keep 50 social 50 tech just to keep your economy and research up to speed. So what in the galaxy is going on?
-Drake
~SDC~
http://www.restorethepledge.com/rapacity/GalCiv/econotarians.zip
I have gotten pretty good at out-expanding the computers. In this game, I creamed them. I have 14 worlds to the Altarian's 8, then it's Torians about 5 (including one or two in the unexplored upper right), Yor 3, Arceans 2, and Drengin 1 (unexplored lower left, the unexplored lower right has a couple of worlds not yet claimed). So I have about 40% or the worlds - double my equal share of 1/5. I also THOUGHT that I had gotten good at early game development. Anybody involved in the previous thread I started may remember that the problem I had before was that I wasn't running my economy hard enough. I run it harder now, but if you look at this saved game you will see that I am still obviously doing something wrong. The Altarian's graphs are intersecting with mine even though I should be way ahead by now.
As I said before, I have more worlds. Last time it turned out that this was availing me nothing because I wasn't taxing much. But if you look at the Alatarian's (a) pop. growth chart and (b) morale on his worlds, you will see that he isn't taxing much. Yet he is beating me in pop. growth and keeping right along on economy, technology, and manufacturing. And even if you crank my tax rate up so that my morale drops to around 65% you'll see that it doesn't get you much ahead.
It is a complete mystery to me how this is happening. Not only do I have more worlds, but I am ahead of him in developing them. Every single one already has soil enrichment, a banking center, and improved environment. My best class is 21, his best class is 18. My worst class is 18, his worst class is 16. My average class is 18.9, his average class is 17.4. The only place he's beating me is in population, and there not by much.
Compare a couple of worlds.
Alva I (The Company): Class 19, Population 651, Morale 76, Revenue 17, Spending 16
Wardel III (The Altarian Republic): Class 17, Population 671, Morale 100, Revenue 15, Spending 14
Alva I is comparable to other worlds in my empire, indicating that this specific case is not because of an event penalty. Check Zasica II, for instance (class 19, pop. 742, mrl. 72, rev. 17, spd. 16).
I have a higher class by two and similar population, but his morale is much higher. From that it should be apparent that my tax level is set higher. Yet despite the higher class and higher taxes, Alva I is barely making a penny more than Wardel III. Browse around and you'll see this pattern repeated all over the two empires. So I don't think it's simply an issue of me not taxing enough. If you check the population growth charts you'll see that mine is following right along with the bundle of lines defined by the computer players' charts. Something I haven't figured out must be giving him an edge.
Also mysterious to me is how his economy is that good even WITH that edge. The total revenue from his planets is 144. Mine is 226, or more than half again as much, at the current tax level. Crank the taxes until approval rating becomes 64, by the way, and it only increases to 239, so that is obviously not the issue. But in any case it appears to be way higher. Yet he is keeping right along with me. So I am confused about two things. First, why do his worlds provide a better tax rate/revenue ratio, and second, why is his economy as good as mine when his revenue sum is way lower?
There are several possibilities I have already considered and discarded. It cannot be because of trade. I already have one trade route up. It's a decent trade route and at this point in the game it is only returning a few BC. Even if he has both routes up, which I doubt (since I always beat the computer to establishing trade routes... like if you look at my trade screen, you'll see that none of the computers have run routes to me yet), he still shouldn't be getting THAT much out of them.
It shouldn't be because of tribute, unless I'm missing something. It's simply too early in the game. He does have the highest chart, but it is a flatline chart and not very high like everybody else's, since nobody is cranking out real ships yet. Unless he has a pile of ships flying around that I can't see, his entire fleet appears to consist of 5 defenders and a scout. I haven't received any demands from him or heard any rumors that people are paying him. If you go talk to him you'll see that he doesn't even have corvette technology.
I doubt it's because of bonuses. I have an economics bonus of +26% and a morale bonus of +28%, so even if his are higher, they can't be THAT much higher. He positively is not getting big bonuses from resources. If you'll look at the map you'll see that at this point in the game there are plenty of resources that haven't even been claimed. And if you go talk to him, you'll see that he doesn't even have interstellar refining technology. Besides, I think bonuses are incorporated into the planetary revenue values, so it should be apparent from them if he has huge bonuses. Conceivably that does explain why he seems to eek more out of his planets, but 226 is still a lot higher than 144, according to my calculator.
It's not because of trade goods. I still haven't figured out whether the computer will lease those, but in any event nobody has developed any in the current game. And it's not because of government. We are both imperialisms, thanks to a recent United Planets ruling (that's what caused the sudden dip in my chart).
So I am at a complete loss. He gets more revenue out of worse worlds with a lower tax rate, and more value out of his revenue. By GIGANTIC factors. If you run a few turns you'll see where this trend is going. Once he puts soil enrichment and habitat improvement on his worlds he blows me out of the water. I could go on. He appears to get bonuses in a number of other regards. Play some more turns, and you'll not only watch your economy struggle with his for dominance, but you'll watch him keep pace with you while cranking out constructors and warships en masse and at a phenomenal rate, while you have to keep 50 social 50 tech just to keep your economy and research up to speed. So what in the galaxy is going on?
-Drake
~SDC~
