[Suggesiton] Achievement Items

I think these are some good ideas but I would be catious here. As an example, your "hit all 5 DGs with one hammer slam" to gain an achievement that unlocks a favor item.  If it turns out to be a a highly desirable favor item, you'll start to see the sort of behavior I frequently run into on xbox live.  Many gamers on xbox are so focused on getting their achievement points (no cool items usually attached either) that people set up games for the sole purpose of farming them.  I don't want to see that happen here where I'm joining matches where the host wants to farm achievements instead of playing the game right.

That's my big concern, other than that, I think some of these ideas done right could add to the game.

I made a post about this before, i totally agree with u, their should be items that u have to unlock by doing something. How ever i think acheivement items should not show up until unlocked in favor items selection thus making it harder for people to just farm them and they all dodnt have to be 1 awesome act their can be some that just take time and in which case trying to farm for them would be might I say boring.

Or at least give us something for unlocking all the achievements for a given Demigod - special DG specific favor item

For example - Regulus unlocks Splendid Visor - increases attack range by 1, increases spell damage 5%, increases movement speed 5%, increases line of sight 5%, increases attack speed 5%, increases critical strike chance 1% for 1.5x damage

Finish a game without being hit as regulas?  Oh god "hey guys, i need you to play the game for me while i sit back behind base to get this achievement."
Your rook one. "Hey everyone come stand here i need achievement."  Oh look there is a game up called "ACHIEVEMENT FARMING ONLY".

In Cod they had things like get 25 headshot and u get this attachment and I dodn't see any server names like that, I think something like that would work fine. Like u do those acheivements and u get a favor item that portays what u did. Like if it was use betrayer and Regulus's other slowing move like 100 than u could get an item that slows guys when hitting them or that increases the effectiveness of those skills, like makes them even slower.

Right.. because I can get 25 headshots in the first halfof a single normal game of CoD.  So it's not nessisary in that example.

The killing 2 people with 1 sniper bullet achievement in CoD is something worth cheating for, as that's very hard to get, but you don't get some special sniper rifle from it, you only get some xp, so it's not worth it.

You don't grasp the.. God I don't know why I bothered to reply. :/

Innociv, what do you care if some people are going to get the achievements dishonorably?  Just load up TF2 and look through the available servers for achievement farming, then play a real game and notice how many people are NOT using the achievement weapons.  Sure, maybe a lot of them have the weapons and just choose not to use them.  I mean, I'd never touch the Sandman for my life as it removes the Scout's double jump.  People use it, but I don't when I play as the Scout.  Why?  Because the achievement items aren't (supposed to be) overpowered.  Just different.  Crit Charge or Uber Charge?

Same thing here in Demigod.  Even if you get every single achievement and all favor items, you can still only use one at a time.  What do you choose?  Well, it comes down to your build plan.  You may opt to use a normal Favor Item instead of an Achievement Item simply because it suits your build better.  It isn't "I h4s t3h ach33vements, n0w 1 r t3h ub4r!!!11!!111".  Its "Now that I have the Achievement Items, I can further supplement my previous builds when I choose to use them."

So I believe that Demigod specific Achievement Items that boost specific traits would benefit gameplay.  Some people will get them dishonorably and nobody can stop that.  However, many people will still put forth the effort to get them the right way and the ultimate result would be a deeper game.  Some n00bs running around in achievement farming games shouldn't spoil the potential depth (of using them) and fun (of getting them) for the rest of us.

(Also, my examples were just that.  Examples.  Cut me some slack, sheesh.)

There are already Demigod specific achievement items.  Some items suit certain Demigods better than others.  And that's how it should be.

I don't get the point of litterally restricting an item to a certain Demigod.  If the item is well made, then it'll be better for certain Demigods than others depending on play style.

The point of restricting an item to a specific Demigod is that it would be compleatly useless to other Demigods.  I gave one example in this regard.

This would obviously be Rook specific because it only applies to the Rook.  Nobody else has the Hammer Slam.  This is quite different from Kestrel's example, which I happen to disagree with.

In this instance, I actually believe that the item should be open to all Demigods.  If the item is not ability specific then there is no reason to restrict it.  One major pitfall here is that it would be very easy to create "uber achievements".  If, like Kestrel said, there were high level items that were a final reward for fulfilling all achievements, these have much potential to be overpowered general stat boosts.  If such a thing were to be implemented, then it would be critical that the item was balanced to the same level as other Favor and Achievement Items.  Even once you unlock the 100% Achievement Items (should they exist), previous Items should still be used.  Balance is key.

But yes, Innociv, I actually agree with you on that point.

In the event of a universal stat boosting item for 100%, the benefits should reflect the Demigod who unlocked it.  Regulus might get Attack Range, Vision Range, and an improved Crit Chance while Sedna might have personal Health Regen mixed in with another Regen aura.  For the most part, these items would be only useful to the Demigod who unlocked it and maybe one or two others.

Still, there are some interesting things that can stem from this.  Look at the Rook and the Beast.  The Rook would likely get a health/armor Item while the Beast would likely get a movement speed/damage boost item.  While obviously useful to the Demigod who unlocked it, they would be perhaps even more useful to the the opposite Demigod.  I know that the Rook is always needing more movement speed and it happens that the Beast can never get enough compensation for his poor survivability.

When I first heard about a persistant online, I was terrified that it would destroy any form of competetive community.  However, seeing the current Favor Items in play, I actually believe that the system can benefit depth, and thus competition.  The Favor Items are a great way to round off a build and/or shake things up for a game's first blood.  My honest intention for Achievement Items is to allow for a broader variety of Favor Items that do different and sometimes more specific things.  I also happen to like rewards for achievements, and the specific nature of the items that would result easily follows from having a specific goal to get.  Put everything together and it wraps up into Achievement Items.

Innociv not everyone can get 25 heasdshots in a game or if u want another example not everyone can get a 100 kills easily with whatever weapon it is to get attchments.

I don't really think it's fair then, that i can get 25 headshots or kills in a standard game, when the average player can't, so I get a weapon that makes me even deadlier?  If anything, the game should gimp me.

Innociv is stating exactly what I was warning against, and it is a legitimate concern.  It's easy to say "they just have to make these unlockable, DG specific items balanced" it's something completely different to actually pull it off.  This is a very fine line to walk, done right, it adds to the game, no doubt about.  It is so very easy to screw up that the idea makes me nervous. 

If the reward for pulling off these achievements was nothing more than fluff:

-fancy titles

-unlockable graphics (golden rook, new TB helmet, armor dyes, capes, etc)

- pets (ooh look, a mini-rook)

- These are crappy ideas off the top of my head, just to make the point 

Basically, none of these things impacts the actual balance of the game.  They just look cool, and this was the approach that a game like COD4 actually took.  People would sometimes farm just to get their golden AK-47, but so what, it didn't affect me and it wasn't very common, because a golden AK does NOTHING different.  Add this same element in with unique items that matter and it will, well...matter!  It will also make this game very unfriendly for newbies.  Even if the unlockable item is balanced, if it is a good item it will be incorporated into good players builds, and the newbs will hate it, and so they will set up farming games to get it.  At that point, why did we go to the trouble of adding this to the game?  What did it really add to the overall gameplay value?  Anything?  Imo, it doesn't.

I believe every player should have equal access to the things that allow them to compete in a match.  Giving the best players more items in their arsenal than new players is bad.  If you want to reward the good players, give them something that sets them apart without touching the games balance.

I think how they've done it now is fine.

Achievements give you points.  You buy items for points.  In a few hours even if you're bad you can get enough points to get a few good ones.

There shouldn't be achievement items that are twice as powerful as the current ones.  There shouldn't be ones that cost 2500 favor points, except for things that'd just change appearance or something to show you've gotten so much favor points.

They actually did it right with how it is now, and some people want that ruined.
Sigh...

While I admit, the favor items are dirt cheap right now I still (as mentioned in other threads on this topic) disagree with the concept.  As mentioned previously in this thread all this will do is lead to Favor farming games with 1 easy AI versus a player and 4 nightmare AI teammates or perhaps games where players trade off favor wins.

Also (again, previously mentioned) it's true that the last thing you want to do is make veteran players have an even *larger* advantage over new players.  It's bad enough that they don't have to read all the tooltips, it's far worse if they also have gear that the new player can't access.

I'm 100% for achievements, I'm also 100% against game affecting unlocks.  Non-combat related things are fine like a new armor color, a new character skin, etc.  It's the combat affecting things that are the problem.

There is a host option for disabling them.

Can't set it in Pantheon games.

Nor can you set fast spawns..

I think I'm missing your point.

The point is that if you want options tailored to your preferences you should play custom games.  Certain game modes need to have the settings locked.  I realize you were stating that you felt favor items are bad, period.  But I think the general consensus is they are liked by most players in their current form, so having them on by default for locked game modes is appropriate.

My point was that having your character be more powerful just because you have either spent more time playing or you did some stupid achievement farming has no place in competative play.  If I wanted that I would go play a PvP MMO where I win not because I'm a better player but because I simply have spent more time playing the game than the next guy.

I'm saying that unlockables are fine in Custom games but they should not be usable in tournaments, or all unlocks should be open to everyone in tournaments.

It's just dumb if you can win a tournament/ladder (supposedly a show of skill) just by playing more even if you are not as good of a player.

I do understand that a lot of players like this because in the end most people aren't very good and being able to compensate that by spending 5x as much time playing as a better player (who doesn't play as much) in order to rank higher on a ladder or win a tournament defeats the purpose of competative play.

Favor Items are not that powerful and you can only use one at a time.  They give a minor advantage to supplement specific builds.  They do not carry builds.  Even if you spam Achievements/Favor, you can still only use one at a time.  Even if one is slightly better than another, it isn't like they stack.  You get one, singular boost which is fairly minor.  You won't win a game because of that.

In that regard, I would say that they are important for ranked play.  While it may be slightly more difficult for the new player whose first game is online ranked so they have nothing but the speed boost (even then, not even that bad), the upper end of the spectrum will appreciate and use Favor Items in their gameplay and builds.  All they do is supplement your actions, they will not carry the game for you as you claim.

If all they do is add a minor boost why not let everyone use all of them?  There is no benefit from requiring players to grind favor to unlock items.  Having them all available/unlocked from the start doesn't cause anyone any problems and not unlocking them does.

I'm not disagreeing that favor items aren't terrbily powerful nor am I saying that they are hard to get.  However, the original poster (and replies) are suggesting adding more powerful/expensive favor items.  This path only gets worse as the game goes on and people build up tons of favor that they need to dump on something.  The developers then need to add even more expensive items (even more powerful) until eventually a very skilled player on a new account is severely handicapped compared to a new player on a fully unlocked account.

The only argument for favor items is so players have a long term "goal" to shoot for.  This can be accomplished by non-game-affecting favor rewards such as skins, effects, non-combat pets, etc.

The argument against favor items is that they cause an imbalance in the game between players who have played a lot compared to players who have not.  Right now this imbalance is minimal and it only takes a few games to eliminate it.  Adding additional favor items extends the number of games it takes to eliminate this imbalance and it also makes the imbalance worse if the favor items are stronger than what is available now.

Player skill makes a bigger difference than the tiems.

I could go without a favor item and beat most people just fine.

Yes, but you would lose to an equally skilled player who did have a favor item.

In competative play it's not as much about what bracket you are in but where in that bracket you stand.  If I'm a division B players (ie: I kind of suck) and I'm playing against other similarly skilled players it sucks if I lose because they had some non-skill advantage over me.  I don't expect unlocks to make me a division A player but it levels the playing field with other players of my skill.

Summary: It's not about losing to a more skilled player who also has an unlock. It's about losing to an equally skilled player *because* they have an unlock.

Innociv, u said why make the better players better but thats basicly what acheivement items do. The items unlock for each demigod wouldn't nessicarily be better but they would be more specialized for each demigod. Also as Random guy said acheivement items are minor things that help u become better and since u can not were multiple at a time their is no real point in farming unless u wabnt a certain one and u have no acheivement points. SPecialized ones wouldn't be all beastly but just a way to have more differnces in Demigod and the ability to unlock stuff which I find enjoyable. When I unlock stuff I'm like Oh yeah, I just got a differnt shiny weapon to use.