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something about battlestar galactica that is bugging me

something about battlestar galactica that is bugging me

So here is my question about BSG. How did galactica survive being nuked? I mean sure the nuke is in space so a lot of the effects of a nuclear blast are not there but it seemed like the galactica took almost a direct hit from a nuke in one of the battles and even if you are talking about a small blast radius like say 1km that would still take out most of the ship, right?

100,648 views 37 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 25

Imagine a complete rookie chess player trying to program an AI to play chess. The rookie knows how the board works, but beyond that..
End of Annatar11's quote

Genetic Algorithms FTW!

You don't need to know how to do something, just what you want done. Just put in a genetic algorithm, and sit back and watch as your system constantly improves itself! The first few (or hundred) times it will fail in an epic way, but after than it will get progressively better over time until it reaches the optimum solution. And the best part is, since the genetic alorithm doesn't stop... It allows the program to adapt to new environments. Ah, the wonders of evolution.

Here is an example at work: http://www.wreck.devisland.net/ga/

The graph in upper right shows the best (black line) and average (green line) traveled by each generation. Let it run for about and hour and watch to see how it goes much much farther than at the start (most of them dont even move at all at the start).

Reply #27 Top

You don't need to know how to do something, just what you want done. Just put in a genetic algorithm, and sit back and watch as your system constantly improves itself! The first few (or hundred) times it will fail in an epic way, but after than it will get progressively better over time until it reaches the optimum solution. And the best part is, since the genetic alorithm doesn't stop... It allows the program to adapt to new environments. Ah, the wonders of evolution.
End of quote

But without resurrecting the raiders it can't get progressively better since any and all progress would be lost when the raider is destroyed. Each individual raider gets better the longer it remains alive (see aforementioned Scar), but without raider resurrection all they have is the base algorithm for every new raider that goes off the assembly line :P

Reply #28 Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 2

But without resurrecting the raiders it can't get progressively better since any and all progress would be lost when the raider is destroyed. Each individual raider gets better the longer it remains alive (see aforementioned Scar), but without raider resurrection all they have is the base algorithm for every new raider that goes off the assembly line
End of Annatar11's quote

Which is why you dont distribute it to the raiders. The raiders only get the resulting programs, not the algorithm itself. A central control computer could then track the progress of each raider (fitness step) and select the best distributed algorithm based on which few are operating the best (selection step). Mix a bit of code around (recombination step). Then it would add in some random mutations (mutation step), and either A: distribute new code based on the new program generation during the battle via communications or B: only distribute in factory when the next raider generation is built.

This system would be very much superior to the individual raider situation, since all programs would be stored in the central computer as well as the active programs in the raiders themselves. This means there is no need to 'resurrect raiders' to get their experiences, since the computer has been tracking their progress and rating their program accordingly. Now, since each central computer would have to be within a short range (to prevent problems tracking the raiders), there would likely be one central raider computer in every fleet. I do not know much about the BSG universe, but I would assume they (like most other sci fi shows) have FTL communications. If this is true, they would then occasionally use those to share their best programs with the other raider using fleets. This would result in all raiders ability in combat increasing with each battle fought.

Reply #29 Top

Wouldn't they update the base algorithm as time goes by? Even if they were assuming that their resurrection stuff would always be available, it would still be a good idea to keep a record of the current programming of the best raiders. (in case they want to build additional troops at some point)

Reply #30 Top

Here is how it would work: the main algorithm is just the mechanism through which it would act. It is essentially just the evolutionary mechanism. It would do the following: find a fitness 'score' for the radiers' programming, use that score to pick out the best programs, recombine those programs, add random mutations to some of the programs, distribute and collect data on the programs' performance. It would do these in essentially that order. 
Now, the programs the raiders themselves would be running would be completely different programs. They would be like the DNA of an organism. Changes in the program would result in changes in behavior of the raiders, and thus increase or decrease how well they work. This would raise or lower their 'score' which ranks how well they are performing. This 'score' would then be used to choose the best few and then combine the best programs, just like how sexual reproduction turns the DNA of 2 parents into the DNA of the children. The algorithm itself would not need to change.

If they used this sort of system, raiders would be pushovers during the first and maybe second battles... But would get better and better over time. Which needless to say wouldn't work well for a sci-fi show, since everyone knows that at the beggining enemies are always big bad and scary, taking entire groups to kill one, but over time get to be crappy little things that can't win even with superior numbers. For example the Wraith in Stargate Atlantis, who in one of the early episodes they ended up firing at it from a jumper since they kept shooting it and it still didn't die, compared to later on where they frequently take on multiple wraith in hand to hand combat and kill them all...

Reply #31 Top

Galactica was designed to get hit by nukes and survive.  If we had nukes flying all over the place we would design our ships for it assuming anyone survived after the first round.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 18

I had thought that before myself. Worse though is how does what only ever seems to be maybe 2 dozen vipers actually hold off the swarms of raiders we see. At time there must be over 100 raiders, yet the vipers always manage to hold their own.

Not complaining, just always found that curious.


Well, my theory.. if you remember in the beginning they were losing quite a few vipers (and there was that Scar episode with the Raider Elite), but we also learned that the raiders only get better because when they die, they can also re-download so the new raider learns from the old.

But once they started blowing up resurrection ships (one in season 2 , and then they just did away with the hub completely later), any new raider would be a complete rookie compared to the trained viper pilots.
End of Annatar11's quote

 

remeber the humans only get one chance so they are fighting to stay alive.  The raiders on the other hand are just fighting doesn't matter if they live or die until the ressurction ships go bye bye.

Reply #33 Top

Science Fiction shows are among my favorites on tv. Based on the show that aired in 1978, the new Battlestar Galactica takes sci-fi plots to the next level. With great land and space battle scenes, this show leaves little to be desired. Character plots and arcs increase the intrest in the show with great chemistry and humorus lines. With a bleak future presented before the human race, a group of refugees take it upon themselves to find a new homeplanet to settle the race away from their enemies, the Cylons. This show proves just how resistant the human race is aginst adversity.

Reply #34 Top

Plus sheer weight of numbers would still offset lack of skill, but it's a reasonable assumption still.
End of quote

 

There is a world war 2 battle called midway where sheer weight of numbers did not offset the lack of skill.  Remember in world war 2.  We sent our aces home to train our fliers where as the japs kept theirs on the front line.  Thus the number of aces dropped as they were shot down.  Where as ours were training better nuggets because they were at home.

 

Thinking about it the japs had both skill and numbers and still lost.

Reply #35 Top

I really shouldn't be bothering, but anyway.

First, using the term "japs" in the way you did comes off as derogatory and racist. Not cool.

Second, your argument holds no water.

The US had the superior numbers at the Battle of Midway, not the IJN.

The US had somewhere around 230 naval aircraft and around 130 land based aircraft from Midway. The IJN had only about 250 planes in total.

Thats about a 110 plane advantage to the US.

Also the crucial factor in Midway was that the US codebreakers had deciphered much of the Japanese plan which allowed the US to hold a decisive strategic advantage.

About the only area in which the IJN were superior in that battle was the aircraft themselves.

The actions of Yamamoto in his planning of the attack was misguided at best and the fact he separated his fleet from Nagumo's showed he had underestimated the USN considerably.

Midway was a strategic battle, not one of numbers and skill, not in the way you are arguing at least.

Edit - Besides, in the context in which i was commenting, i don't care how skillfull someone is. When faced with the shown numerical advantage that the Cylons had in raiders over the Vipers, skill would be for nought.

100 skilled pilots VS 1000 less skilled pilots in comparable machinery would have a very hard time gaining any advantage, let alone being able to survive.

 

 

Reply #36 Top

Quoting ManSh00ter, reply 14
As for nukes, I imagine any sort of an anti-ship nuke would have an armor-piercing head designed to bury itself in the hull plating and then detonate. I don't know if BSG has those though, but it makes sense.

Oh, and as far as "not making sense", how about them Cylon raiders not making mince-meat out of the Vipers? I mean, they are machines, correct? *Built* for the purpose of flying in space? So how come they can't pull off stunts which carry them way above the G threshold of humans? Raiders should always be able to outmaneuver human pilots simply because they won't black out when the G's get too rough.
End of ManSh00ter's quote

I guess you didnt watched the whole BSG series am  right?
because if you did then you knew about the biological part of the Cylon raiders

 

*SPOILER*

they are alive but insted of bones they have iron
there even was a rebelion denger among cylons and the raiders at one point

/*SPOILER*

Reply #37 Top

The Galactica series takes place in the deep deep past remember?

 

Just fall back on the "They don't makeim like they used to." sentiment.