Demigod roles should be equally balanced.

The "Tragedy of the Commons" and the real reason the UB is OP...

from Demigod Forums

There are five roles a demigod can take in game: anti-demigod, anti-creep, anti-tower, flag capper, and support.  Unfortunately demigod-killing is far more rewarding in terms of total XP/gold than any of the other roles in the game.  Ideally skillful play in any role should be equally rewarded.  If you spent 2 minutes being a perfectly efficient flag capper or tower destroyer you should reap an equal benefit to two minutes of efficient demigod killing.

The UB is actually well balanced vs. the other demigods in a fair fight.  The problem is that the UB benefits from a snowball effect of increasing power.  He is the best at killing enemy demigods so he gets more gold, therefore more items, therefore even more demigod kills.  It's a positive feedback loop.  If you balance all the in-game roles as I illustrate above the Unclean Beast will lose his comparative advantage and be truly well balanced.  Cutting the gold reward for a demigod kill in half should be enough to acomplish this.

This game currently suffers by being a perfect example of the "Tragedy of the Commons".  No individual player will spend his resources (time, gold) on an action that benefits all other players on his team as equally as himself when he could spend his resources on an action that benefits himself massively by comparison: Demigod killing.  Why spend valuable gold on citadel upgrades when you could spend that gold on an item to get a couple of extra demigod kills instead?  Why waste time capping a flag when you could be plugging the Rook?

One solution is to make it so that purchasing a Citadel upgrade rewards the individual player as well as the team.  Each Citadel upgrade should grant XP to the player who purchases it.  That way spending your own gold benefits you as well as the team and the "Tragedy of the Commons" is eliminated.

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Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

On the other hand, the game is called Demigod and it is about whacking the other demigods.

You can hardly constantly kill enemy demigods and loose at the same time. So demigod killing is crucial enough to be awarded premium points.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

I think the problem comes from the favor point allocation system:

copy/paste from an other post: (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/347548, by the way that's something like the 3rd post in 2 days on this topic, the devs must have noticed it, or at least i hope so )

i think that the favor point system is broken:

1- only the players that do something the most is rewarded, if the 3 top killers scores 16 kills, 15 kills and 6 kills, only the first one is rewarded and it is a bit frustrating for the second that have also played well.

2- You are rewarded for arbitrary things like kills or gold spent in citadel upgrades but it doesn't always reflect what you have done for your team. For example, in cataract, if i spend time breaking the towers to access the ennemies portals and i take their flags, it can easily make my team win, but i can still don't be rewarded at all.

 

So i think it would be better to just give points for each kill, support spell used on an ally, flag taken, etc. And maybe multiply by a 2x coef if you are in the winning team.

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

That's exactly my point.  Some Demigods are better at the "Killing Demigods" role than others and are therefore overpowered.  If there are multiple roles they should be balanced.  If the game should only be about killing demigods you might as well get rid of creeps, towers, citadels, and make it a glorified deathmatch.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

That whole issue is also the reason for so many generals not, or rarely, using their minion skills. Minion generals aren't bad at all, they are just less good at killing other demigods.

1- only the players that do something the most is rewarded, if the 3 top killers scores 16 kills, 15 kills and 6 kills, only the first one is rewarded and it is a bit frustrating for the second that have also played well.
End of quote

For the one with 15 kills its quite frustrating, one more kill and both would be rewarded with the kill award. Adding a second and/or third place for every award, giving lesser favor pionts would help a lot.

Another thing is that the winner, damage, kill, kill streak, thus also the gold award are often going to the same player. If you got the most gold in the game, you will also more likely get the citadel upgrade award. So you get a whol package of 6 (out of 13) awards if you get the most kills. I agree, the favor point system is broken. :/

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

it might be an idea to make a point system for the end favor point system so when ever u do something u get a point towards ur end score which dictates how much favor u get.  for example:  you get 2 point for every tower u kill (anti-structure) or 2 points for every flag you capture (flag capper) or 1 point for every 50 creeps u smoosh (anti-creep) or 1 point for every buff/heal u give (support) and say 4 points for every Demigod Kill (anti-demigod).  that way all the roles are ballanced when it comes to end game scoring.  ofcourse this is just a suggestion and the actual amount of points given would probably have to a lot diffrent to wat i suggested, its just an example.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting TheScottishAlien, reply 5
it might be an idea to make a point system for the end favor point system so when ever u do something u get a point towards ur end score which dictates how much favor u get.  for example:  you get 2 point for every tower u kill (anti-structure) or 2 points for every flag you capture (flag capper) or 1 point for every 50 creeps u smoosh (anti-creep) or 1 point for every buff/heal u give (support) and say 4 points for every Demigod Kill (anti-demigod).  that way all the roles are ballanced when it comes to end game scoring.  ofcourse this is just a suggestion and the actual amount of points given would probably have to a lot diffrent to wat i suggested, its just an example.
End of TheScottishAlien's quote

that's my point ^^. I don't know why the devs have decided to only reward one player, and why they haven't simply made that sort of system.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

You forgot healing/buffing/interupting.  If you play one of those characters, do it for religious reasons, cause there aint no "Saved Butts" ranking in the Favor points at the end. . .  The DG killers get most the glory/points/awards.

Cutting the rewards in half IF the DG is lower level than you would stop the snowballing; increase it for killing DG higher than you = problem solved.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

I don't think the OP was talking about favor points at all. How much favor you get is pretty minor in the long run. What does matter is how much reward you get in the game.

If the only reward is for killing other players (and a little for controlling gold mines), then what's the point in making anything but an assassin type character (even if you pick a general).

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

but if there is more reward after the game for being something other than an assasin, like a support then people will build more in that direction.  plus a pure anti-demigod will sux at pushing lanes and controlling flags so all the other team needs is a few goof tech upgrades for the assassins to be overpowered and lose.

agreed though that there needs to be more in-game rewards though... like more gold/experiance from creeps and towers and maybe less from demigods.  but the favor point system is still broken

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

corectly, I play Sedna and Erebus and I make both super-assasins simply because there's no point doing otherwise...or I'll get the less favor. There's no incentive for support, and why should i put 12000 gold in citadel when i can buy a nice artefact with them and whipe them on my own?

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting TheScottishAlien, reply 9
plus a pure anti-demigod will sux at pushing lanes and controlling flags so all the other team needs is a few goof tech upgrades for the assassins to be overpowered and lose.
End of TheScottishAlien's quote

Why do you say that? Just because it sounds right and balanced? It sure as hell isn't true. If a DG is anti-demigod he is AWESOME at controlling flags because enemies can't get near him.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

I feel the only two heroes that have a hard time making kills are the Queen of Thorns and the Rook, but both are incredibly durable, are amazing at anti-structure and creeping.  Even more than Sedna, believe it or not, these two are the selfless characters, there to get the job done, not to make kills.  In Fortress, other demigods protect these guys so they can go about their business wrecking structures.  In Conquest, I don't know anybody else that's better at pushing lanes than these two.

While I agree killing demigods needs to give slightly less exp/gold, and destroying structures needs to grant more, you can't let flag-capping grant more than it is now otherwise teams will keep trading flags and gaining ridiculous amounts of exp and gold -- it's very easy to steal a flag, especially on larger maps, and I think the exp you gain reflects this.

That being said -- 90% of the kills I make, and I do rake up around 15 kills per game, are from players being overzealous or unwatchful.  Most players don't know when to not engage in a fight, when to tactically retreat, or why it's such a good idea to run with your reinforcements.  Most simply don't know how to play the game yet, and I'm not going to presume that's the case for anyone in this forum, but this game penalizes you for having teammates that can't keep themselves alive, and that isn't ever going to change.