Can *any* Demigod beat a heal build Sedna in 1v1?

Do you mean kill her 1 on 1? or win the game 1 on 1?

I know that she is tough to beat when she is buffed for self healing to the max. But that also means she has a soft bite so your survivability goes up as well. I'd rely on this fact and then work the metagame to secure your objectives in ways other than just "hero kills". Strategic takedowns of buildings and key timely city upgrades come to mind. After all it's a map control game.

I've been on the winning and losing side of games where the side that got the most hero kills still soundly lost. The team that won usually just played the map better.

This is 1v1 as in 1 player per team... not as in "ohh there's a lone Demigod on a field of 8". Couldn't cap flags because she could just tank all the damage I dealt to her, ergo can't win via map control. I tried that, that's why the match went on for so long

Sedna should be weak against generals with damage priority minions, since she has no AoE to speak of. And her higher healing spells cost quite a lot of mana.

So my bet would be on Erebus or Oak.

Best bet would be to use a Rook and spam towers etc. to control map. While Sedna has a very good tank, the rook with towers and all has some pretty amazing DPS if you get in range.

Otherwise you might be screwed =D

Hi, first post on these forums ^^

Anyway, I play sedna almost exclusively and so far I think I'm decently good at it. So I got to thinking of the ways I usually die.

While sedna has high regen, its more to slow the damage than prevent it (unless you are far under her level), so really once she starts taking hits she will need to use heal.

Things that mess with cooldowns (stuns, frost TB, interrupts) are extremely deadly if timed right. 6 seconds is a long time to wait for the next heal considering you were already damaged when you attemtpted to use it.

She also doesn't have much defense against minions, the only AoE is the heal. It comes in later in the game, and for only 200 dmg (assuming you didn't interrupt it).

Finally, she has severe mana problems early on, limited range to engage towers, and no utility (slows, stuns, teleports).



I just played a 1v1 crucible against UB that lasted about an hour. While I did win, there were a few deaths when he was able to stun me. Most of the time it was impossible to outrun him, while he could escape quite a few times. Also I think if he had rushed the towers earlier he could have killed my fortress before I got his, as I spent all my money buying mana gear with no time to upgrade creeps.

I haven't played many similar matchups against good opponents, but I would imagine these would be the toughest ones.

Tower spec Rook
Oak with minions
Regulus with slow 

Lets say she gets some rediculous healing and defense numbers:

1500 self heal every 5 seconds

500 heal from minions every 5 seconds

200 hp/sec regen

= 600hp/sec regen total

Say her defense is high enough that it cuts your damage in half, it would give her effectively 1200hp/sec.  Thats pretty stout.

With a game that has gone on for 2 hours, you should basically have your pick of artifacts.

Bracelet of rage + ashkandor + deathbringer are the necessities, other than that you need an additional 15% haste to be at the speed cap, from there you should work on +damage and life leech.

At that point your base dps would be ~1400dps, enough to kill her in 40 seconds assuming she has ~8000hp and doesnt use potions.  With potions she would still be very difficult to kill.

Pop bracelet of rage for an additional 300 base damage (which at the speed cap is 600dps), bringing you up to 2000dps.  This will have her dead in 10 seconds (the same duration as the ability... funny that). 

Pop beastial wrath at the same time (+65% damage) and your doing 3300dps.  Enough to kill her in under 5 seconds, at that point healing potions wont be able to keep her alive.

Sure sednas tough, but if you cannot kill her after a 2 hour game as UB its because you built your character wrong, or bought the wrong items.  You really dont even need venom spit to be able to put her away.

You can't kill Sedna, but she can't kill you either. Balanced.

All demigods have more creeps killing power than sedna, which mean creeps upgrades will be (usually) good against her; if she buy more creeps to counter your creeps, you will gain even more advantage with your faster killing speed.

Avoid wasting too much time on her and use speed and teleport to out level her through creeps.

Stay with the creeps and clear her creeps (not minion) first, in hopes of creeps add onto your damage.

Of course, this is assuming 1vs1, and she didn't pack divine power (favor item- her minion knock smaller units flying).

Funny I played UB vs Sedna last night on Crucible (me Sedna) and I got crushed.  UB just spit on me then used his auto-attack and he did damage much faster than I could heal...or I would run out of mana.  He just capped the one flag that was available to fight over and then never let me cap it back--if I tried, he would show up and whip my butt.  My totem priests either were bugged and would never heal me...or he did dmg so fast I never noticed.

Either he was a very good UB, or I suck at Sedna.  Or both.  Perhaps you guys can tell me how you are beating UB with her.

Once Sedna gets Heal III, she can just instantly cleanse the venom spit off, while also healing 1200 of other damage, on the same cooldown as Spit, but for less mana. I honestly don't know how he ever managed to kill your demigod, though UB is much better at killing reinforcements than Sedna is.

one of the keys here is... win before your game takes 2hrs =p Be bolder, and more aggressive, especially early on, and especially on the small maps.  On a big map, errors are recoverable.  On a small map, errors quickly turn to entrenched advantages.

But at 2hrs, that must be at the least lv20 DGs, with plenty of (if not entirely) expensive items and upgraded citadels... you generally want to win before that point if possible... as well as be familiar with all the little pro-tips, like how to restrict targetting to a DG, concealing yourself in a creep wave, target priority, and attack stacking... at that late in the game, not being able to take out a creep wave quickly is more deadly than the enemy dg.

You are talking Heal-3 which doesn't come until later in the game.  What about levels before you get that?  At level-1, level-2, etc?  If I hide from him, he levels faster than me.  If I confront him, he pushes me since his dps from basic attacks is just higher than my mana regen can heal with.  By the time I got to Heal-3, he had pimped his UB with items that made his dps still faster than my heal-3 could heal.

you're a general, so use that.

Harass him with creeps when he is away from the flag and micromanage the units while you're sitting at the flag. Run away with the unit's he's currently attacking. He'll eventually get them but that costs him time.

If UB sits on the flag, harass him with sedna but be sure that he won't get you. Be a coward. Meanwhile, use your minions to kill creeps and gain XP while UB is sitting around. Also use your minions as a zone to retreat to, so make sure that they don't kill themselves on the fixed defenses.

I once pulled of the creep harass successfully with a UB. Managed to lure him in reach of defenses a couple of times, but he survived, of course. The damaged UB didn't survive the Sedna that came back from getting that lonely flag on Crucible and punced him.

Ragequit.

When it comes to 1 on 1 fights, every general has an advantage over every assasin. Assasins simply don't have the staying power that generals have due to a lack of shields and healing. It's that simple.

I really don't know Sedna that well, but I could imagine a yeti build with only relatively moderate healing abilities plus monk or higher priest minions would be an absolute pain to solo for UB or any other assasin.

Some advice:

1. Warlords Punisher: Mana burn + damage hits her pretty hard.
2. Stun effect.  Unclean beast for instance can grapple with her to cancel a heal.  Use it wisely.
3. Increase your normal DPS significantly if you can.  If she HAS to spend all her time healing, then you can make up the difference in normal attacks.
4. Remember that she dispells:  If you are using UB, then hit her with the spit right after she heals, not before.  Melee her until then, and then grasp her when she tries to heal again.  You can get 14 seconds of no heal in there, and you just got to make it work after that.

And lastly.. remember that killing a DG isn't the same as winning the game.  While it may be hard to kill her, she probably isn't going to do that well killing you back.

Erebus can easily take down sedna heal build in a 1v1 fight. His bite has roughly the same cooldown as her heal, and not only does it heal him but it does damage to her as well, thus negating her heal while healing him. At top level, erebus' bite does 900 damage and heals for 900 giving you an effective damage of 1800, where as her heal only heals her for 1500. During this time, she's not damaging you, where as you can continue to damage her.

Basically... its an easy win for erebus.

you're right, you really don't know sedna. Her minions are awful.

orly? at least in mid-game, her yetis don't seem so awful...

For all those suggesting ridiculous Artifacts to boost damage, did you not read the part about there being 0 kills and 0 deaths? This map has 2 bonus gold mines which she controlled the entire time. Neither of us could afford anything but the base-level stuff from the shop and some citadel upgrades.

Thanks for the tips about heal being a cleanse though. I had no idea on that one. I was also never going to be able to actually interrupt a heal because the opponent was in Asia with > 600 ping to him which is a longer response time than the actual cast speed. Sure, I used it as a delay before the next heal, but that's about it.

As for those who were saying they had trouble as Sedna vs. a UB, this guy was full heal build. He buffed up the aura and his passive regen first and then his heal spell with the movement buff inbetween. The fights lasted a fair while, sure, but he was eventually always able to outlast me.

And thanks for the sensible tip about Sedna being weak against generals. Makes sense now that I think of it with her not having an AoE.

I also like Senda the best. But honestly the smart move, is a Tank rook, Who can simply ignore her as a nuisance and take towers (making her useless). Also a speed unclean beast that focuses not on hp drain abiliteis but on stat boosting who boost damage by late game it deals so much retarded damamge Sedna has trouble.

Not to say thats a perfect coutner if I see rook I just go speed sedna and dominate flag control. And against unclean beast that does damage dealing I just pop Yetis to kill troops while engaging him with sedna intoao draw. which alows me to slowly creep the map.

Right now my best friend is working on ways to beat me 1v1. it probably wont tak ehim long I will post when he succeeds. 

Sedna heal is almost ok, what's worse is QoT shield. The latter definetly needs a nerf. Heal only minor.

the shield nice but loses effectiveness over time. End game its tissue paper, Heal is usuefull early game and late game the 50 hp regen Makes Sedna very hard to finish off

Other than the revenue and tower upgrades, this was likely your problem.  UB is fantastic damage, but you need good equipment to make the most of it.

At the very minimum you had ~30,000 over the course of the 2hr game, if you got the revenue upgrades it should be close to double that, if you killed any grunts whatsoever, you should have at least 75k.  More than enough to  get every DPS item you need to dominate her, and still be able to afford citadel upgrades.

Bad spending combined with the fact that she consistantly controlled additional goldmines (and probably extra flags, which give quite nice bonus), means she probably had WAY better equipment than you, and equipment is a huge part of 1v1 DG battles.

I play panth almost exclusively and I play for light so I haven't had to fight her much. That's what I'd try though.

The other nice effect about the WP with that matchup is that it would help the UB creep without even getting close enough to get pounced.

Items play such a large part in this game at higher levels, it can get to a point where all DG's can't kill other DG's unless you gang up on them - so if you played a 2 hour game I would be surprised if you could kill eachother at all.  This goes for just about any demigod in 1v1 once you have your pick of artifacts.

Most characters played well can take out even the most durable Sedna, or force her to run.  UB probably has one of the hardest times because of his often reliance upon venom spit, which is only useful early in the game against Sedna.  You really have to push your speed advantage, diseased claws and foul grasp.  Probably best not to use Venom Spit at all, and instead focus on Bestial Wrath.  She is quite vulnerable to burst damage, and if you open with a bestial wrath and then go into a foul grasp you will have a good chance at interupting her .5 second heal.  If this happens, she is done for.  She cannot match your speed and passive health regen alone...or even healing alone if she gets it off will not be enough to fight your damage.

Her healing is great but she needs to have downtime for the passive stuff to take hold.  On Crucible you could fight her at the bottom flag (gold flag) without worrying about her retreating into towers, she will never make it back to them in time.  And you dont have to worry about creep interference either because they don't go down there.  I know it's all easier said than done, but Sedna will go down to heavy pressure.  You just need to get her into a situation where she cannot pull back to a tower.

She does do decent direct damage though, so she will hurt you.  but a health pot or two, and later a heart of life can really help you to keep the pressure on and not let up.

Basically, don't give Sedna a chance to regen her health and mana.  Keep the pressure on.

Now multiple Sednas....your on your own.  Two Sednas can deal with just about anything I think.