Problem with buying starbases strategy

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You can???

I mentioned in that thread you referred to that I had to fork out a whole bunch of TGs, techs and cash just to buy a one module influence SB in Maso. It could be because they are pretty smallish in that game and couldn't afford to lose a SB. I believe I picked +60 diplo racial pick in that game as well.

Marko (or Staffa), can you give us some data?
eg. Influence SB with 5 modules - 500bc, Omni Computers

Dis sure ain't my experience - and I tried both at Maso, and at Crippling. Maybe how they feel about you is part of the formulae?

Not with one or two techs you can't, not even at Normal, and I was playing a maxxed-out diplomacy race (Populist, +60% or so as well, diplo translators, et al -- ended with an alliance victory with something over +200% diplo). A barely-started military-resource base, if memory serves, cost me something like 1500+ BC plus several non-trivial techs. The fact that I was Saintly and that the seller was the Drengin might have affected it, 'tho.

It costs about 20k for a resource starbase.

Which on a huge/gigantic abundant economy
is about 3-5 months near the mid game and 1 month
towards the end, faster if your getting a lot of
econ resources back.

Perhaps the cost should be adjusted for the size/quality
of the map, cause 20k is a ton and apporiate on a tiny.

But the larger maps, 20-30k is chump change.

About 2 techs, depends on the techs guys, some of those
very late techs are worth a ton. I could see
wormhole entrance and controlled worm holes being
worth 20-30k.

I have only zeroed out my government spending in one game(im on
a military vendetta lately) to try this, so I dont speak from as
much experience as the original poster But it does work
I have often spent hoardes of techs to get an influence base
from a weak backwards Ai, and never felt this was a problem, but
when you can accomplish the same thing against the top Ai by
zeroing your government spending for 1-5 months, and repeat
add nausium(you cant repeat using techs cause u run out of techs)
then it could be a problem worth looking into.
[Message Edited]

I have to admit that I don't find this unbalance either. I usually play tiny crippling or maso and it takes a lot of effort to save up enough cash to buy a starbase. Even with all the diplomancy bonus and wonders I still have to pay 5-10k for small enemy starbases. That cost would allow me speed buy a few extra ships and conquer a planet, or speed buy 2-3 trade goods or wonders, or operate at 100% spending for an extra 20-50 turns. Sounds about right balance wise.

Paul.

~SDC~

Of course you dont find this unbalancing at tiny,
think about the economies of scales. It costs the
same at huge when that amount of credits is trivial.

This is where it becomes unbalancing.


[Message Edited]

After reading this thread I tried to buy a few starbases on my current small, uncommon, painful game. I couldn't get any takers, but I was still in the mid-game tech-wise (only a year or so from military conquest though). I offered about 4 mid-level techs, 4 Low-mid end TGs, and about 2k buck for a partially upgraded econ.

I can see that if the price doesn't scale to the large maps that they could become relatively cheap though.

I just tried to buy an econ one on my tiny crippling game(2 incred/3 genius) from one of the increds. 17K plus three techs. I have diplo trans but no racial diplo picks. I decided it was cheaper just to attack it awhile later and take it that way. Seems cost prohibitive on tiny.

I did this recently on a medium/simple game with good diplomacy working for me. I want to say I paid maybe 6 or 7k for two different bases, btu i may have thrown in some tech, I can't recall.

I usually use Starbase trades to dump all of my useless ships. That way I can get down to about 2K cash spending, plus 2K influence, but I haven't tried on 1.04 Maso.

~SDC~

Hmm... only time I've ever tried to buy a starbase is when I'm about to exterminate an AI and I don't want it to vanish.

Isn't it usually cheaper to start a war with them, wipe out their base, and claim it?

Even if they are tougher than you, it would have to be cheaper than 20-30k to make peace.

My apologies for not being more specific in my previous posts. Let me address the issues one by one

- The Starbase cost doesn't seem to scale with galaxy size or number of habitable planets
- The AIs attitude towards you seems to affect the price (though I'm not 100% sure of that)
- The price for starbases is not highly dependent on number of modules (aka 4 modules don't cost half as much as 8 modules)
- The price per starbase is about 20-30kbc with equal diplomacy. The problem is that on Huge/abundant maps or higher this is chump change(as Staffa mentioned).
I've actually seen the price go down to 6000 bcs with diplo picks and translators, etc.

- Each tech seems to have a certain value in BCs so late-game techs are worth more. You can buy the starbases with a couple of late-game techs which becomes pretty cheap considering the benefit.

I don't think it's "unbalancing" on smaller maps..but it is on large maps. I just thought the price should be made to scale with the number of habitable planets, don't make them impossible to buy, just not so easy on giant maps.

As for the point of it being cheaper to go to war and take the starbase.By the end-game on a huge map I can buy starbases very easily.I just don't think it's that expensive. As a matter of fact before I go to war, I buy out their military bases, which can make a sizeable difference. The thing is that by the end-game, if you buy out the AI's economic bases you can goften stop his ship-production completely to let you catch up militarily.

I've stopped using this since it's too easy to win (even on Maso assuming you survive the beginning) and it got kind of dull after a few games. Though I do still buy bases when neccessary.

My only suggestion was to basically make the price scale with the number of habitable planets.