8400 gold catapults

Angels are nice because they fly around and reviel parts of the map. They are also decent at interupting HoL. Otherwise... they are pretty useless.

They cost 10200 (not sure on the math; I just added the cost of priests [1800] to his, so it's probably right) dude. Priests are shitty as well.

Priests are quite good if you get them at the right time. Their heal is a percentage so in the end-game you can get healed for 600-700 from them easily, every 10 seconds. But if you get them so early that you just let the enemy farm them for gold and xp, then you generally screw yourself

They also tremendously help to take out towers early on.

I don't know, I've kinda changed my mind on this one.  Angels don't have anywhere near the straight, in your face, noticable impact of the other creep upgrades, but they do work quite well as skirmishing forces in several situations.  Sure, getting them in a situation where they're feeding right into a meat grinder is just helping the other team, but they give you a *much* larger line of sight which is a huge boost on big maps.  They also harrass enemy creeps (they'll do a decent job of slowing enemy giants until you can get your own as they keep getting distracted trying to swat them), and as was already mentioned they make using the heart of life harder.  The situational awareness though is what really makes them useful, when you're on a team that's actually coordinated enough to ambush enemy demigods (or playing against one!) having a general idea where all the enemy demigods are is a huge tactical advantage.  Even when you're not, it gives you the freedom to much more aggressively attack towers, etc. when you're pretty sure UB isn't about to leap out of the fog of war.

Priests and Angels are bad to get early. They could use a bit more damage and health. Bit longer sight range for Angels, maybe a small +creep armor aura on priests?

I think priest hp is good for the early game when you *can* get them. When your Demigod only does ~150 damage and it takes 3-4 hits to down them. They lose that when you get them later (which everyone does) and so they die quicker. But bumping up their hp would make them a bit crazier early on.

I'm embarassed to say, I respect angels a lot more now, since one them killed me last week.  I was playing Reg, and had escaped a fight with an UB player with just a bit of health left.  So, I just wiped my forhead, glad for my luck, headed towards the healing crystal, and BAM; in comes an enemy angel and kills me.

Wish we had replays; I'd link that one and call it: Angels are OP! Nerf Angels!

I wish Angels were a little more effective too.  Maybe 4 of them would be better, or they need a 25% dodge chance.

I also would like to see exclusive creep trees.  Something to mix it up so it isnt always the same thing.  Maybe one that focuses on seige and air, and another on slow heavy armor, and another on faster ranged units. 

The problem is not so much their damage/hp/effects... Its the exp they give.  I would almost like to see angels and priests switched in the order of purchas, and nerf the exp angels give. 

But essentially the issue is exp, If you get angels/priests early, you are feeding exp to the enemy. (this is why comepack are possible if people go to catas/giants to push as the exp from them is great).

The best solution I cam come up with is to not make them purchases.  Make it like arches.  They come with a certian warscore.  That would make it more fair.  Of couse warscore progess would need to be a bit slower.

Not that it justifies the purchase, but since it hasn't been mentioned yet; angels are excellent at harassing DG:s with a HoL. I've found that I usually have to put some distance between myself and the enemy base before using the Heart of Life.

it is all fine. buying priests helps you a little but does keeps your oponent in game. they can catch up due to more xp and gold. this keeps the game up, with forgiving mistakes. so it does not get a too early decision of the outcome. it's fine!

I actually think that priests are extremely useful to your side for the constant healing you get from them.  They make pushing towers much easier and since they hang in the back they can even be a tipping factor in a DG vs DG encounter if they're nearby.  I would definitely have them at top of my "to get" list in a game if it were not for the unfortunate fact that they do feed so much gold and xp to the opposition.  Thus, they really are a double-edged sword.  This actually seems a bit strange since upgrades in general are about gaining an advantage over the enemy, not giving them one.

-dolynick