[Suggestion] Lord Erebus Overhaul

from Demigod Forums

[for those just reading this post, note that it has been disregarded from being stupid.  obviously i don't know as much about demigod design/balance as other so this was failed suggestion.  out of curtesy i'm leaving it up so i don't seem like a douche however before anyone else flames about this they should relaize that there is no point]

 

like many people playing at the moment i've suffered many many defeats to the Erebus Minion build.  Dispite my best efforts i can't seem to find a reasonable solution to beat this build so began thinking about what makes this build so amazing and destructive.  After much thought and more defeats it finally dawned on me... minions are un-interuptable.  in other words there is no way of preventing minions from being formed short of killing him.  this is a serious flaw considering all other minion cost either mana or can have th spell inturpted.

Erebus on the other hand pays no mana for his minions and has no spell to inturupt.  in fact he can still summon minions when in mist form and technicaly invunrable. so i decided to come up with a sensible, contructive overhaul to fix this:

 

Minion (Night Walkers)

 

(Current) -

The minions created by Lord Erebus when units die. Higher rate of conversion with Improved Conversion AuraCoven. and he can maintain more with
End of quote

 

Change:  Upon death a Night Walker will drain 5% of Erebus's max HP

 

Reason:  since Night Walkers isn't an active ability and therefor has no inturupt... and since its automatic making it cost mana would only cause u to always be out of mana... with a HP cost Erebus can still maintain his lane domination, however now he would have to be more wary of using him minions like cannon fodder.  this opens possible counters to the Erebus Minoon build as well as adds more strategy to playing Erebus which would need a more conscious thought on minion controll and death.

 

Escape Mech (Mist)

 

(Current) -

Lord Erebus turns into mist, draining life per second his foes[sic] while they are in the mist and transferring it to allies. While Mist is active Lord Erebus loses 125 mana per second, and cannot move, capture flags, be healed or use abilities. Entering mist removes all negative effects.
End of quote

 

Change: Change Mist so it costs health per sec or so Erebus can be damaged by AoE splash damage.

 

Reason: currently mist is the ultimate escape mech.. advoiding damge, all the while spawning minions who do nasty damage.  seems perfect.  however Erebus already has an escape mechanism... bat swarm.  and since trying you only really need one escape mechanism (specialy since many other DG's don't have any escape mech) and since bat swarm is to hard to overhaul to not be an escape it falls on mist.  by making it cost HP per sec rather than mana it makes using mist to avoid a deadly last hit less of an option however still is usefull for avoiding bit nukes like Hammer Slam. 

however if people really like the ability to perma mist then the other option would be to  for Erebus to be invisible rather tha invunrable.  while invisible Erebus could be detected and attacked normaly or even targeted by AoE leaving him vunrable while in mist.  his makes more sense since it would mean more stratigic  use of mist to farm grunts and minions rather than an escape mechanism.

 

 

anyway that all i have for Lord Erebus.  basicly tried t make him match his description better by making him more health dependent.  since health is now a weighing factor minion builds would have to be less agressive in order to avoid indirect damage from minion deaths.  also limiting him escape mechanisms helps for balancing deep strike builds were elebus is able to avoid serveral towers with no worries to get last hits on DG's.

obviously this is a "ZOMG!! NERF EREBUS HE OP!!!!11!!ONE" post however from a design perspective i think the changes make sense and compliment the philosphy of his character better and help develope his strategy to be more deep and skillful.  alway looking for discussion thou so what do other think?

2,338 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

Dispite my best efforts i can't seem to find a reasonable solution to beat this build so began thinking about what makes this build so amazing and destructive.
End of quote

How about stacking armor.  It works quite nicely against these kinds of builds.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

Mist is not an escape, it's a delay and/or counter-move.  This is extremely different.  Sure, Mist can be useful here and there in very isolated situations, they all are best used in short bursts to prevent specific things.

No change is needed to Mist.

As for minions, there is a bug with one of the favor items to make this particularly powerful.  If anything should be fixed, it should be that first, then we can see where night walkers stand.

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

I love people who use mist in silly places.. specially when i play regulus. 1 or 2 stacks of mines right on his misting spot usually solves the bat problems im having

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

The problem is that qot is the key to trumping this erebus build. In panth the forces of light never have queen...so the forces of darkness tend to win. My queen build demolishes  ereubus minion build in custom. Spikes anti armour and aoe rapes these things, plus queen of thorns make them useless too. Even shamblers would work.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

OMG can ppl stop whining and whinging about 'oh poor poor me i played a game and Demigod X was way to over powering'. Im SICK OF THIS SHIT! its a game and every demigod has a counter to him/her and if your not smart enough to relise that then ur a stupid head plain and simple. Stop your whining about the gods and start whining (just alil more) about those 2 new PROMISED demigods, that were promised 3+ months ago, sad i know....   Forget this topic leave the gods alone, they already took away my Heart Of Life, dont take away my Erebus also.

If we realy were 2 change a god itd deff be QoT and i think we all agree, she is alil 2 weak and needs some upgrading, all the other gods are perfect as they are. I mean ffs what will you nerds be complaining about next, Sednas yetis bein to OP???

And Scotish i read ur posts alot and apart from this 1, respect dog, if you had all the right tools for this game you shoud b the CEO, designer and every other position with all the workers there 'using; on this game, not these other jokers we have 'working so hard' on it.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

What's with the hate for Erebus all of a sudden? You kids need to get over the Horn build and move on to hating regulus or something again.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

This is a serious flaw considering all other minion cost either mana or can have th spell inturpted. Erebus on the other hand pays no mana for his minions and has no spell to inturupt.  in fact he can still summon minions when in mist form and technicaly invunrable. so i decided to come up with a sensible, contructive overhaul to fix this
 
Minion (Night Walkers)
(Current) - The minions created by Lord Erebus when units die. Higher rate of conversion with Improved Conversion AuraCoven. and he can maintain more with

Change:  Upon death a Night Walker will drain 5% of Erebus's max HP
Reason:  since Night Walkers isn't an active ability and therefor has no inturupt... and since its automatic making it cost mana would only cause u to always be out of mana... with a HP cost Erebus can still maintain his lane domination, however now he would have to be more wary of using him minions like cannon fodder.  this opens possible counters to the Erebus Minoon build as well as adds more strategy to playing Erebus which would need a more conscious thought on minion controll and death.
End of quote


I stopped reading here. Your solution to a non-existant problem is to make it that so by killing Erebus' minions, you deal damage to Erebus himself. This is one of the worst ideas I've read yet on these forums, and to be honest I expected more from you Alien.
You are aware that Erebus without minions is much weaker than Erebus with minions and this is because he is balanced around Minion play and this is why he receives them for free? Implementing a change like this, which would make playing with Minions as intelligent as having a bath with a toaster to save time on preparing breakfast, you transform them into a liability and remove the usefulness of the build entirely. Because Erebus always is able to summon minions, even with a low success rate to begin with, this change would force players to keep their minions off of the field; killing one deals 5% damage to Erebus and thats a liability one can't afford late game with the amount of direct DPS Auto-Attack stacking Reg and UB are capable of.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

One might consider this: Erebus has to put points into TWO trees for maximum rollie effectiveness, whereas Oak can do so with one tree (and a single point in another, if he so desires). This is why Oak's summons are not as effective as Erebus's.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

I think that minion builds in general are overpowered atm, but let's wait and see how they play after the horn fix, assuming that's going to make it into 1.2.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

Also making him vulnerable to AoE during mist wouldn't really be all that fair against a DG like rook whose primary damage combo (hammer+boulder) is Aoe.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Obscenitor, reply 10
Also making him vulnerable to AoE during mist wouldn't really be all that fair against a DG like rook whose primary damage combo (hammer+boulder) is Aoe.
End of Obscenitor's quote

This would just get him stomped by so many people... Agreed, bad idea.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

wow.. feel the hate.  fine everyone seems to love the way he is, i get it.  i was just trying to be constructive with some suggestions to how a design flaw like being unable to interupt or prevent his minions could be fixed.  since no one seems to care fine. OP closed... no need for further discussion

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top

Dude, no one hates you :P Hell, plenty of us have already commented on how much we love your ideas. We just disagree with this one.

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

yea well i think i'll stay as far away from demigod editing as i possibly can from now on... maps seem like a much more safer place to add my input. chalk this one up as a failer and maybe i'll try redem myself with a new map idea when i get back on sunday. sorry to dissapoint people

Reply #15 from Demigod Forums Top

Don't be so hard on yourself. No one agrees with anyone on balance.

Reply #16 from Demigod Forums Top

I'm going to have to disagree with your point on balance issues there Obscenitor...

... yeah, bad joke.

Anyway, Alien, you design some fantastic maps - and I don't just mean 'good' maps, I mean I'd-quite-happily-pay-you-for-them kind of fantastic. However, I can't see your suggestions for Erebus working to further the game's balance. Sorry mate.