Qot Ideas

One week before the patch. I hope they also balance in 1.2, because if not they effectively lost one Demigod while introducing another.

Only newbies will try her out a few times, only to see playing QoT is not only uneffective and bad for your team but also no fun to play (I tried Stun/Slam Rook recently and it's a lot more fun).

My suggestions:

• Change Tribute to be a Shambler-specific special skill:
  • the number of active Shamblers give QoT some bonus:
    • +10 health per second and/or
      
    • +10 mana per second

• Give Bramble Shield some side effect for 3rd and 4th skill level:
  • not interruptable when Shielded
  • throws back slowing effects on attacker

• Improve Ground Spikes:
  • Too weak against Demigods and too strong against towers:
    • at maximal level (-1500 armor), an armor reduction from 3000 armor (55% dmg reduction) to 1500 armor (37% damage reduction) means only 18% more autoattack damage for 5 seconds (in comparison: Oak's Pentinence increases all damage by 17% for 7 seconds)
    • Tower upgrades should also increase tower armor (+200)
      
    • Demigods should not regenerate health (and mana?) during these 5 seconds

• Change Uproot to channeling spell:
  • interruptable
  • duration of 5 seconds, each second damage is done
    
  • does increasing damage per second:
    
    • level1 -> 100 + 125 + 150 + 175 + 200 = 750 maximuml damage
    • level4 -> 400 + 500 + 600 + 700 + 800 = 3000 maximum damage (it's a siege only skill after all and it's interruptable!)
      
    • towers can't attack while Uprooted from skill level 3 upwards
      

• Violent Siege: deal normal damage as area damage

• Change compost to something useful. It should temporarily:
  
  • increase maximum health of QoT or
  • increase armor of QoT or
    
  • increase attack speed of QoT or
  • increase attack damage of QoT or
  • increase movement speed of QoT

• Increase effect of Goddess of Thorns:
  • 25% less damage taken
  • Bramble Shields deal 100 damage per second area damage (Shields only last seconds at this level)
    

Give Bramble Shield some side effect for 3rd and 4th skill level:

• not interruptable when Shielded
• throws back slowing effects on attacker

i think the second option would be of great benefit.

Violent Siege: deal normal damage as area damage

its range should be much larger also. its a lvl 15 skill ... it should be good considering it can only be used on structures.

Increase effect of Goddess of Thorns:

• 25% less damage taken
• Bramble Shields deal 100 damage per second area damage (Shields only last seconds at this level)

Both these effects would be nice.

theres been a lot of suggestions on how they could tweak these skills, so hopefully they r taken into consideration and implemented VERY soon.

Good ideas in this thread.

But what about Shamblers? As it stands they will never be useful without a significant boost in HP and damage. They're too expensive as well.

IIRC Night Walkers start off with more health than Shamblers. And you can have 10 of them!

Really, every one of QoT's moves needs buffing/reworking, with the exception of Ground Spikes. As the others said, even Shield becomes increasingly useless late game, and is clearly inferior to Heal at ranks 3 and 4.

CosMoe, you are so right. I played with her for a while, and found myself getting excessively frustrated and bored especially above level 10. I went back to Oak and was like, "whoa! This game is fun!"

Any one of the ideas in this post would make her fun and viable.

OK, here's my take...

First, fix bugs :
- QoT AA targetting
- Shamblers AA range (cf. http://forums.demigodthegame.com/358902, very easy fix)

Skills :

Open / Close
- Lower animation time
- Closed form bonus : +100 armor, +10% armor, +10 HP / sec
- Opened form bonus : AoE attack, +50% mana regen, +5% speed

Ground Spikes
- Tweak mana cost progression : 400 / 500 / 600 / 700
- Remove armor debuff (yes, you read that right)
- Increase damage vs creeps and minions (this is her army destroying skill) : + 10 / 15 / 20 / 25%
Now, this is her mass killing skill, so it's further boosted by the Compost synergy.

Spike Wave
- Lower mana cost
or
- Make it an interrupt

Summon Shamblers
- Max cap : 2 / 3 / 4 / 6

Mulch Shambler
- Skill actually might need nerfing. But let's not touch it for now.

Uproot
Allow it to be targeted at an enemy DG with the following effects :
- stuns target for 0.6 sec (+ compost synergy)
- lowers armor by 450 / 900 / 1350 / 1800 for 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 secs
Keep the siege effects.

Shield
- Easy one : make it absorb armor mitigated damage

Goddess of Thorns
Swap the effects :
- Shield gives 15% damage reduction
- Ground Spikes does 35 DPS DoT for 20 secs

Violent Siege
Haven't seen it in action, so dunno. But AoE should be similar to that of Circle of Fire.

Entourage
Scrap damage bonus, give armor and life regen bonus instead :
- + 10 / 15 / 20 HP per sec
- +250 / 500 / 700 armor

Tribute
- make it 4 gold per shambler (now, we're talking money)
or
- each shambler around QoT (10m radius) takes 5% of the damage she's dealt in her stead

Compost
- Increase cap : 6 / 12 / 18 (ie, max effect level 2 / 4 / 6)
- Scrap shambler bonus health
- Increase shambler damage bonus : +10 per compost effect level (thus capping at 60)
- +3 % shambler run and attack speed per compost effect level
- shamblers healed by 10 / 15 / 20% opponent's life when they or QoT make a kill
- +0.4 sec stun duration per compost effect lvl when Uproot is used on a DG

I don't really like the idea of buffing the shield further, and it doesn't make sense to have it reflect slows or have mitigated damage because of armour. The shield goes around the DG and blocks incoming attacks, it doesn't reflect them, so why should it reflect slows, and the attacks don't even reach the armour, so why should it mitigate it.

The shield seems like the most used skill for the QoT since it seems to work alright, though I do get sick of seeing a 3v3 with a QoT stacks mana and shields the whole team where you can't do any damage what so ever to them, shield has low recast and good HP. If anything the shield recast rate should be nerfed or a limited amount of active shields.

Anyway the point is, most of the other abilities of the QoT need to be increased, so Bramble Shield while still been an effective skill, shouldn't be a requirement of every build.

Shamblers should give some bonuses to DGs nearby, compost should have additional effects since towers don't last all game (some may argue the rook tower life steal skill is in the same boat, but the rook makes his own towers which he can get HP off). Ground spikes and spike wave should scale better as skilled up.

That's a valid objection from the point of view of in-game "realism" but since it's a game and not very "realistic" to start with, sometimes "realism" has to be forgotten for the benefit of balance.
The issue with shield is that it doesn't scale as the game progresses. Auto-attack gets stronger, and shield goes down faster and faster. Players offset AA increase by stacking armor late game. We could suggest giving the shield itself an armour value, but since shield caps at level 10, it would come too soon, making it stronger when it's already strong. Hence the idea to let it scale along with players equipment choices, even if it's not very "realistic".

We might suggest making it a tad weaker at slvl 1 & 2 (less absorption, higher mana cost) to compensate, but to be honest, a QoT doesn't have the mana pool / regen to support Shield chain casting before lvl 4, and lvl 4-6 skills do most of the damage and people have low armor values (usually a single +armor item, if any), so the impact would probably be minimal.

i agree with wyatan.

i think the slow down idea was to be something like " when you are hit with brambles on, the attacker is slowed by X%". I think its fair if sedna can remove neg conditions with her spell and qot can apply negative conditions to her attackers.

Her shield is the ONLY thing going for her atm (until late game), thats why its used so much and spammed throughout an entire game. Her offensive side doesnt allow her to hold her own in a match. Shes just not efficient enough.

yes her skills do need to be increased. and her shield is NOT effective lol. it only serves its purpose early game.

Agree completely. It even fits her character. I would love to see something like this.

Well I must run into a lot of pro QoT, they seem to be able to stand their own, shield up, spike aoe to kill my armour then spike wave to slow me, then auto me down.

If we boost the HP of shield to scale better, it should lose out in other areas, like recast/cost/max active shields. If I went my max DPS Oak build, I can hit for 500 with crits of 1000, thats on basically unmitigated. So if we boost shield to 2000hp at max, I still need to hit 3.5 times or so to break it, during that time it could be put back up, or back up soon after it goes down, allowing that player to gain time to auto-regen hp. Just remember, Sedna's heal only goes up to 1500 and costs a lot of mana to, and from what I've seen, has slower recast time then Bramble.

The only way I've seen good QoTs go down is when you hit it a bit but don't break its shield, and hit another guy and break his, then as soon as the QoT shields him up, nuke the QoT and hope it dies before shielding again. The thing about shield is it can be cast well before combat even begins, and is a preventative style defense, whereas sedna healing is active. This is what allows QoT shields to last on several people at the same time.

Perhaps having a maximum duration of the shield so that it means you can't keep it up on 3 people at once, and you can't sit there charging mana back up with shields on everyone, just like most other buffs.

Ah, the obligatory "QoT is fine" post.

Sorry, she's not. Play as her some and you'll see that early game shield is about all she has going for her. She's squishy, weak, slow, and insanely mana dependent. Most of her skill tree is completely useless. She is inarguably the worst late-game demigod.

I don't think this would work. Currently there's no such thing as an interrupt. Deep Freeze, Pounce, and Penitence are stuns. More than a few times I've actually hit a target with Boulder Roll an instant after Pounce hit and it failed because of stun immunity caused by the pounce stun. You can also see that those attacks delay your autoattack as well because of the stun.

but ur missing its main ingredient -- condition removal. That out ways any heal amount imo.

we dont want i higher number, coz that wont improve the skill at all. Coz late game heavily depends on dps, percentages are a good way to counter such fast dps. You will not have to increase mana cost becoz its underpowered as it is now.

or the ppl vsing her arent very good... and if u use her alot u no a combonation of those skills will deplete her mana completely.

I would never consider a QoT who plays like that a "pro", because with this build (Ground Spikes early and Spike Wave) you're feeding the enemy team if it's coordinated. Playing in open mode = death on stun.

noother, did you try playing her just once?

I should actually just ignore people like you...

Please read all my posts geez. I didn't say she is fine, I said a few times her other skills need some buffing.

Again read the whole post...

I was saying that shield has advantages over heals, you can over heal wasting it, heal takes time to cast and the sedna must be in range, where as you can shield at anytime when your near a friendly and let them run off, there isn't a restriction on it.

I've played QoT a few times, its not one of the classes I play regular, usually Reg or Oak, sometimes others. I did a 2v2 pantheon with my side both QoT the enemy been TB/UB, and we won, wasn't a close game or anything. I've played QoT and never really used shield cept once. From what I've seen in games, a QoT who is whoring for another class like Oak/UB/LE usually results in an unbreakable duo even if its 3vs2. A co-ordinated strike will only sometimes break it, but its hard to do with another enemy there.