Tough love for desktop enhancements is needed

from JoeUser Forums

Object_Desktop_2008_Logo It’s time to have a very candid discussion about the future of Windows customization.

For the past couple of years, I’ve been focusing on other parts of the company. Users on WinCustomize.com and related sites have no doubt noticed that my activity has dropped a great deal for awhile. 

Focusing on Stardock’s games unit and the Impulse unit required a lot of the time I used to devote to the desktop enhancements group.  Starting Monday, I’m back – somewhat anyway.

And today I spent time looking over the state of desktop enhancements and in particular Stardock’s desktop enhancements and I don’t like what I see.

First, third-party customization seems totally dead.  For all the grief we used to receive about how “open source” and “freeware” would rule the world (how those uxtheme patches working out these days?) it’s pretty clear that that development crowd has moved on to other things.

Let’s face it, Windows Vista and Windows 7 in particular look awesome. Microsoft has done a great job improving the experience for Windows users.  Why on earth should people pay money for programs that often make Windows look worse? Or make things behave flakey?

Does this mean that customization is dying? No.  It means that desktop enhancements have to adapt to the OS people actually use.  We’re a long ways from the days of Windows 2000 or Windows XP now. 

Sure, lots of people still use Windows XP. But it’s a dying market. It came out 8 years ago. It’s time to move on.  You can’t focus making software for legacy operating systems if your overall audience are cutting edge power users.  I know that might upset some people but it’s true.

In two weeks, Windows 7 comes out.  I’m running it right now. It’s awesome. And if desktop customization is going to move forward, it needs to start looking at customizing the things that today’s users want to customize even if that means starting from scratch.

Keep an eye on Object Desktop starting today and going forward. You’re going to see some pretty rapid changes coming.

269,848 views 141 replies
Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Hope that's before my subscription runs out. :X

 

:fox:

Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Thank you for the heads up and I think that most folks would agree with your analysis of desktop enhancements.

I started out using Object Desktop on XP Home 32 bit system, now I also have Vista Home Premium 64 bit system, which will be getting an upgrade to Win 7 64 bit.  Yes, time does march on and rather quickly when you are talking about computers.

Glad to see that you will be spending some time on the  Customizing side of the house, you have been missed.  :sun:

 

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top

OK, will be waiting.:grin:

Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Let's have some nice proggies for my new pc :P

 

btw, why do you guys keep sending me a link for Windowblinds 1.3...?

Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I just moaned in another thread about how game development at SD hindered the desktop apps. I am looking forward to a change if it really happens now. Allow me to be somewhat sceptical about that. There are so many apps in Object Desktop that really could need some love.

Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top

This is what a lot of us have really been hoping for. Glad to read this!

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I just moaned in another thread about how game development at SD hindered the desktop apps. I am looking forward to a change if it really happens now. Allow me to be somewhat sceptical about that. There are so many apps in Object Desktop that really could need some love.
End of quote

I won't be giving a lot of love to legacy programs in Object Desktop. I want to look at creating new programs, even if they have overlapping ability with old programs.

So RightClick, KLP, ObjectBar, etc. will likely not get very much love in their current manifestations.

You're a lot more likely to see new programs that do things simiilar to what they do but take advantage of newer tech.

ObjectBar doesn't even use GDI+ I don't think let alone WPF and the like for instance. 

 

Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top

You're a lot more likely to see new programs that do things simiilar to what they do but take advantage of newer tech.
End of quote

That sounds promising. :)

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I'd like to see some love for Natural Desktop...

 

:fox:

Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top

It was foresight and being on the cutting edge that brought us all here in the first place Brad.

So I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone over inevitable progress.

When I last checked I believe Microsoft stated that they will continue to support XP up to 2015.

That's the longest life span for any MS OS, but time marches on.

:digichet:   

Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well I'm just alittle ashamed to admit that I was wondering if you didn't like the customizers money as much as the gamers.  :O :-" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Working around the MANY restrictive areas in Vista\Win 7  as it relates to WB should be a must going forward, imo.

Overriding the supposedly 'hard coded' areas of Win 7 to bring back more free flowing skinning of the UI to me, is as important as any other new program.

Vista and 7 have put a serious hurt on the ability to be creative and this of course is trickling down to other apps and hurting skinning in general.

 

Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top

if stardock is a certified microsoft partner then can't they work with ms to unlock more parts to skin like the logon screen etc?

 

Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top

So RightClick, KLP, ObjectBar, etc. will likely not get very much love in their current manifestations.
End of quote

XO XO XO XO XO >:(

Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top

 

someone needs a hug |-)

Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top

If Windows 7 is as good as everyone says it is, most of us will climb on board.  I am still running XP only because I want to skip Vista altogether.  I suspect there are lots of us waiting for the release later this month to move forward.  So, bring on the changes!

Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top

We need to clone Frogboy so he can be two places at once ;).

I'm pushing hard to try to get Win7 on all of my (and my parents') machines when it comes out. Student discounts, the family pack, etc - I'm pulling out all of the stops to grab it on budget and in a short period of time. IMHO it's worth it :).

For all the grief we used to receive about how “open source” and “freeware” would rule the world
End of quote

Heh. For all of the efforts to make it user friendly - they forgot the ecosystem.

It's not just about UIs and pretty interfaces, it's about the software ecosystem and the support system.

Here's what I see on Linux: A couple of good apps on a decent OS.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of apps on Linux are supported only as long as the author is interested in the project. And support is usually in the form of forums or IRC.

Again and again when I have issues with open source stuff, I run into the the "we're just hobbyists" argument. They're just hobbyists so they don't answer to you. They're just hobbyists so they'll do things their way. They're just hobbyists so when they drop the project, pray that somebody else picks it up (which almost never happens with smaller projects). They're just hobbyists and users are idiots anyways.

Not exactly a good formula for making something user friendly, which will be REQUIRED if they want to "rule the world." 

Here's what I see on Windows: Lots of great apps on a good OS.

Being supported financially by users means if you don't keep it running well, you lose your income. If you don't provide support, people may move away.

Microsoft may CLAIM they're just doing good stuff for mundane business reasons, or that stuff was planned all along - but the truth is, they're doing it because they know full well who has the purse strings. I don't think Windows 7's performance tweaks were totally random or because they felt like it - I think that they knew full well what had to be overcome to get rid of the negative reception of Vista, and knew full well they needed to regain their users respect.

That's not to say that ALL open source or ALL proprietary works that way - but IN GENERAL, being user supported means you care about your users, even if they claim you really don't. And even people who outwardly claim they hate something might use it if it provides real benefits to them.

It can really all be boiled down to this: "Free" software isn't responsible to the users because it's a hobby and the users don't pay them a dime. "Proprietary" software is responsible to the users because at the end of the day, the user pays your bills.

Hence "free" software, ON AVERAGE, will be less user friendly than proprietary software. There are exceptions, yes, but on average that's what happens.

Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Kitkun, reply 9
I'd like to see some love for Natural Desktop...

 

End of Kitkun's quote

k1

 

:)

Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Quick request for "customizing the things that today’s users want to customize" - I really, really, really hate when windows steal the focus.  I click on a Word document, go to Opera, and suddenly Word pops back up on top of by webpage.  What the heck???

k thx bai

Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top

When I want a decent workspace, I use Linux, when I want to game I use Windows.

 

Linux: Multiple Desktops, native theming for most Desktop Environments, tons of Desktop Environments to choose from with plenty of ways to customize the layout for most of them. You laugh at open-source, yet you only look at open-source on Windows. Linux offers a great deal of customization for your workspace, and it's free. For those that do not game, it is by far a better choice.

Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Give some examples of linux themes\theming before bashing windows themeing.

Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top

Threw together a couple screenshots, nothing fancy, just switched the theme a bit

Note the widgets, specifically the one labeled Desktop Folder, this widget can be used pretty much exactly like Fences, and even allows the ability to browse through folders without clicking a thing.

Showing off multiple desktops here, note the seperate background and different widgets for each.

 

This is all native to my desktop environment, KDE, which is actually somewhat similar to Windows in it's layout. There are some window managers designed to be controlled entirely by keyboard, I could add a second panel that holds completely different things than the one at the bottom of my screen, and have it with a preview widget, basically anything I want.

 

This is all free, whereas Stardock's products tend to cost money.

 

More examples from various people can be found here

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=232340

 

Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I'm pushing hard to try to get Win7 on all of my (and my parents') machines when it comes out. Student discounts, the family pack, etc - I'm pulling out all of the stops to grab it on budget and in a short period of time. IMHO it's worth it
End of quote

TechNet subscription.....the only way to go...;)

 

Brad's the 'boss'....so when he devoted the lion's share of his time with the Impulse/Games end of the SD spectrum I just sighed into my beer.....waiting fore the time he'd return his/SD's attention to WinCustomizing...... [I didn't hold a gun to his head when I visited SD mid September.....so don't blame/thank me]...;)

Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top

This is all free, whereas Stardock's products tend to cost money.
End of quote

 

Well thats all well and good, what u may be missing is most wincustomizers arent up for using an OS that doesnt support most of their apps, or learning some new Linux equivilent, command line installations, etc etc.

 

I dont see anything your showing there that hasn't been done better , graphically speaking with windows customizing.

 

Linux may offer some different things and thats all well and good but to throw out a blanket "its better" seems like a hard sell to me just because 'its free'

 

Windows customization is extremely easy to set up and use, the OS supports all the most widely used apps and frankly.. 20-50 bucks a year... is a tiny price to pay compared to free and have to deal with all the bs that comes along with linux... for the casual user.

 

but hey... whatever floats ur boat, just don't think your going to sway many people at all on this forum.

 

btw.. I've tried linux a couple of times... doesn't surprise me it's free.

Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top

BS for the casual user? A Linux Distribution like Ubuntu can be easier to use than Windows (obviously once you learn it, you have to remember that everyone had to learn to use Windows too) Ever heard of package managers? Every program you need installable from a single source. BS for the casual user? You mean like completely virus/spyware free? And finally BS for casual user, like everything being complete documented, forums and wiki's everywhere to find help with any problem you generally ever have, as opposed to having nothing similar for Windows. Oh, and installing's a lot easier too considering you don't have to hunt for drivers for everything, generally drivers for the majority of hardware is included in the installation.