Should Windows 98/ME be supported?

from WinCustomize Forums
It's frustrating. I go over to download.com and see user reviews on WindowBlinds:

http://download.com.com/3000-2326-10131236.html?tag=sptlt

And reading it, you'd think that WindowBlinds was junk. But we know it's not. We know it works really really well, especially on Windows 2000 and XP.

The problem is that on Windows 98 and ME, things get dodgy. Those versions of Windows have a limited number of GDI resources. So sometimes desktop enhancements (not just WindowBlinds) work perfectly and sometimes tweaking needs to be done to them.

According to the stats on WinCustomize, Only 19% of the visitors here even use Windows 98/ME. A year ago it was 45%.

This raises the question - how long should these cutomization unfriendly versions of Windows be supported? We're finding it to be a huge PR problem. People download customization software on their Windows 98 box, some percentage of them has problems due to the crummy neature of Windows 98/ME, and then when they eventually upgrade to a decent version of Windows they only remember that the software in question gave them problems and hence we end up with "I tried WindowBlinds and it was unstable" spread like gospel.

http://download.com.com/3000-2326-10131236.html?tag=sptlt

As I write this, fewer than 7 out of 10 people actually had a positive experience with it. Obviously there are some other issues involved such as registered users don't download the shareware so over time, the only users left downloading the shareware are people who have (for whatever reason) chosen not to register. But it's hard to help wondering that Windows 98/ME is also a major factor.

With only 1 out of 5 people on this site running Win98/ME in a world where 70% of desktops are running Win98/ME, it really demonstrates that those who are into customization or have a positive experience in customizing their comptuers are running Windows 2000 or Windows XP.

Therefore, what do you think? Should support for Windows 98/ME users be phased out and if so when?
53,206 views 96 replies
Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I currently run WinME, and I agree the GDI resources problem does keep me from running Object Desktop all the time. I do intend to upgrade, probably within the next year.

As a suggestion for phasing out support perhaps you can start with XP optimized versions of some items, concurrent with Win98/ME versions, and then by say January 2004 (less than 18 months from now) you'll only offer the XP optimized versions, and the Win98/ME versions will be set as final.

I would think within the next 18 months most people will have upgraded to XP anyways. Corporations will do the upgrade after the first Service Pack most likely. Microsoft will, as they've already done for Windows 95, stop supporting 98/ME around then, forcing more people to make the switch.
Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What does work well on Win 98? Best thing I ever did was to upgrade to XP. That said, WB worked as well on 98 as anything did.

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Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
what's with all the colored sentences?
Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Problem is the ME with a slash in front of it.
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top
/me thinks the colored sentences are kind of funny.

That's a really tough question, Frogboy. I was an early adopter of both W2K and WXP, so I'm biased towards that group. You're going to piss off a lot of people either way. Either they'll be pissed at your "buggy" software, or they'll be pissed that you're excluding them. Again, very tough choice.

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Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think thats about right, only people who can afford to upgrade should be able to use windowblinds...
Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top
my thoughts,

a) many, many people don't like product activation. Especially l33t, make-my-desktop-look-like-the-Matrix types. A new copy of Windows for every pc is often not an option, so its possible *some* PCs will be running 98se in a household. So it is either 2000 (which is expensive) or stick with 98, which seems to be the norm.

b)Aren't places still selling 98? I would have *sworn* that I saw it on a shelf less than a month ago at a couple of different places (staples?). Regardless, it is still being passed around a *great* deal on build-your-own systems. Those computer-show dudes with the 98se licences still sell a lot. At least they were at the last show.

c)And this one is fanciful, but what about this Chinese win98 clone that is being talked of? Is it possible that there might be a free, generic 98 some day? I doubt it, but ya never know.

I guess I would halt new development on 98se, and keep a code-frozen 98/ME version of the apps for the duration. Until there are no hardware drivers being made for it, people will go on using it, since it is the most economical option.

I'm thinking most of the swooby new shtuff you wanna do is impossible/inconvienent on 98 or ME anyway...
Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Windows 98, for many people, provides far superior performance than XP would (we've all read/heard the XP horror stories...) so I can understand why people wouldn't upgrade. There's the money issue. However, I don't see why you can't just give some warnings like "win2k+ recommended" etc... That'd probably stop the comments about it running funny on 98 as they'd know it wasn't made for it.

Eventually developers are going to have to stop supporting old versions of windows altogether, but I think it's a little early to stop supporting win98 as many still use it faithfully.

PS: ME sucks, so it's never too soon to stop supporting it as far as I'm concerned
Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top
p.s. I use 2000, and have no plans of upgrading til I can't use the average piece of software/hardware, or the planets line up and Linux runs photoshop flawlessly and has decent wacom drivers.
Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top
> Why fix something if it is not broken? When you finally save enough money to get WXP, you find other problems involving the puchase of new printers, scanners, software, etc. Why is W98 enhancement such a bad alternative option?
THIS REALLY SUCKS BIG TIME!!!!
P.S. Windowblinds works fine on W98 if you know what you are doing. You don't have to be a rocket scientist.
Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top
We're not saying we're going to discontinue it right now, we're asking when people think we should.

It's a real support and PR problem having people who download this stuff on their Win98 mchien where there system tray is so stuffed with things that it uses more space than their taskbar who then immediately rip on our software because it's low on system resources.

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Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I guess the question is if Stardock could take the 10%-20% loss of customers. (or maybe they'd just upgrade for stardock!)

But i say if it helps reduce development time, to allow more advanced and stable features on Windows2k/XP then do it for the 80% of customers, especially since it's likely that all NEW stardock customers will be running one of those 2.
Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Drop support for 98\ME right now.

98\ME are unstable enough to crash even if you put them in a rubber room with cushions that you stole from your sofe tied around them.

Dropping support for win 98\ME would also help to free up a bit of bandwith on this site.
Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I too am biased, koop talked me into buying a new box couple of months ago. I have been amazed at how well XP performs as an OS when compared to 98SE. Not just with Stardock software, but overall. That being said.

If the question is "when"...

When you hold back with features to be compatible with 98 / ME

When you get to a "p" beta trying to be compatible with 98 / ME

When the number of unique switches in the .ini equals the number of registered users!

When the number of HELP messages in the NG, WC msg board, c|net, IRC is greater than the number of What are YOU listening to? mesages.

Basically what I am telling you is that I renew my subscription to OD every year because the software gets better every year. As long as "they" the minority are not holding back the 2000/XP majority then fine. But I have the feeling that it is only goinng to get worse in trying to support 98 / ME. Reason being all those computers are getting older and more fickle everyday.
Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I have winME at home and I honestly don't run Stardock apps that often. I used to, but not lately. I'm not made of money, so I will have to stick with my PII 400MHz machine for a few years yet. Sucks to be me.

However, at work I have a nice Win2K, P4 1.8GHz box. It runs all stardock apps great! I can see exactly what Frogboy is getting at.

So as far as I'm concerned, Win98 and ME are unskinnable OS's. I'll stop even trying at home.
Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hmm..
I see. So you're saying those of us who are limited in both "resources" and $Resources$ are to be excluded from further support just in this site? or from stardock entirely? I would love a clear explanation. I am just slightly infuriated by the implication that the system I use is so tragically passe that it must be dumped post haste and I must run out immediately and purchase a product I have no faith in whatsoever. I am aware of the faults of the system I am running. I am also aware that it's more important to my family that they have food, roof, clothing, and stability than to have the very latest in gadgetry. I refuse to bow to my children's piteous whining about not having the latest in designer labels , why should I be forced to bow to yours ? I recieved the object desktop program as an aniversary gift. Someone thought enough of the program and the idea behind it, (of forcing windows to accept a different look , in effect to allow windows to look more like mac or even xp)to spend good money on it. Now you tell me I may be limited to the amount of use I will have of the program to suit your whim? All I can say is "must be nice to have lots of money and be spoiled rotten. "
This "citizen" will continue to use this site despite the biased and predjudiced views toward those of us still using 98 ME. I just hope someone wakes up, pulls his/her head out of the sand and reallizes not everyone who skins was born with silver spoons or work at fancy jobs.

Oh and further, I have had less than ten skins give me trouble using winME. The few skins that don't work well were graphicly detailed and the many layers were the difficulty. I have tried roughly 40% of the skins at wincustomize. 90% of those skins work splendidly.
>
Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top
re Mr. Einstein:

!!???!?!

Gah, jeez, I don't wanna be a troll but...

"Win98 and ME are unskinnable OS's"...??

urm... wtf have I been doing for 4 years? I had a CELERON 400 for three years, running a multitude of skinnable apps comfortably, and it is running them in the living room now... I also have a p90 laptop with 48 megs of ram running a sweet LS theme over 98se in my bedroom, and it functions flawlessly as a nice LAN stereo and Ebook reader. Windowblinds is a subset of skinning, not the otherway around. (though, it ran fine on my c400 too, a year or so ago.) Skinning is older than my experience with it, and I haven't touched XP yet.

I got the same feeling when I read the statement in an interview recently that said "Transparency just wasn't possible on win98". Of course, he meant varying levels of Alpha transparency but to the unaware that would mean that pre-win2000 everything was square...

Sorry, Mr. Einstein, just had to vent. my apologies. No hard feelings, I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it sounded, and neither did I.

Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top
wulfn1: They don't mean it that way. Fact is MICROSOFT is not gonna support 98 anymore, either, they've said so. Sounds like no big deal til you think about DirectX and such. Facts are it is 5 year old OS. The money thing is an issue to people like us, who use our hardware as hardware, but the average person never sees an OS in the box. They buy it on the pre-built they replace every 3 or 4 years when their newest games won't play. I feel for ya, but time marches on. I don't expect people to abondon 98 for some time, though. Not with, as Frogboy said, 70% of the computers running it.
Reply #20 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Bakerstreet,

I understand what you're saying. I have recieved the "we're sorry but we're no longer supporting winME" message from the microsoft server.(though I must add they've updated two more holes in the system since that notice.. go figure).

I don't understand why no one has suggested there be a seperate program for the newer technology. there is always room for improvement to an old program. And with the complexity of programming it is possible to find new and innovative ways to recycle old ideas. Why toss the baby out with the wash water? dry the baby, place the baby in a new bath if needed and watch the baby thrive. Does anyone out there have any idea how many of us will NEVER have a "new" state of the art up to date pc?(or mac for that matter) of today's population there is a growing number of NEW users who will have older pc's and older Os's. These people, many kids in poorer areas, are the future of programming. Why not give them the chance to create something wonderful with what they have instead of telling them Gee sorry kid, you'll just have to work a second job at mcdonalds after school so you can have what's needed to compete in OUR little world.
Heck go ahead stop supporting us, we're already as good as locked out of several of the skin categories here on wincustomize. but give us the chance to continue working with what little we have without totally excluding us.
Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top
again, I think you are over-thinking "stop supporting". It just means that they can't afford to have a separate, and more challenging, development effort to create *new*, updated versions that work on 98 and ME, when the support isn't there to begin with. The old stuff would always work.

The problem is that some of the new, and most appreciated, bells and whistles simply don't work on 98/ME. So, do you continue backwards compatability, when many of the features you are working on won't even work on the older OS, or do you say "this is for 2000/xp only"?

I can see the trouble they have, especially when many people will be wanting to know why the advertised features don't work on their machines running 98/ME. It is awkward, as you can see, to tell people the OS is just not able to do it. It is much easier to forgo confusion by not hacking together imitations of new software for old OS.

I think that will be a while off, and I bet they will have a smoothly running, code-frozen version that runs well on 98. I have suggested it here, anyway, and MY WISDOM CANNOT BE IGNORED!!
Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top
98 "was" a great OS in its time. I upgraded to 2k about a year ago, then a month ago I tried XP, that was the biggest mistake I ever made. XP has too much extra crap that I wish I had an option to not install them. I hate the "new look", the eye candy eats way more resources than needed, It takes forever to move through the pc because "this folder is contains crap that runs the pc and if changed, can make unwanted behavior" messages come up on my most used folders and you have to buy the more expensive version to use NTFS.

2k is a better solution because it is a WAY better server, less extra "crap", more stable (in my test), WAY less resource hungry.

Now, XP has its strong points, much better older app compatibility, image viewer is cool, you can open WinZip files without WinZip, I like the new start menu and the hide system tray icons button. Humm, that’s about it.

Mandrake Linux is better than the both of them.

And another thing, I personality speaking, think skinning programs are pointless. I mean, Winamp was developed to use skins, so you have to use skins, but object desktop, it is (to me) a waste of time and money. I don’t really care about customizing my whole GUI.
Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I have a desktop running ME and a notebook running XP and like wulfn1 have been able to run the majority of skins on ME with no problems.When I think back to the first time I dipped my toes into the Windowblinds pool there were no complaints about 98/ME versus XP compatability since XP was still a seed in Microsoft's cabbage patch and didn't even exist!

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Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I guess you're right backstreet ,
But I have to wonder about two very important things.. to me anyway. It seems object desktop was initially designed to make the old look new, and the tarnished and blase'look sparkly and fresh. If the old OS is ignored in favor of the new OS, how many new skins will be made that will be compatable with the old OS? I guess I'm skin hungry, and since I haven't learned well enough to create my own yet, this issue is relavent(SP?) to me.
(Hubby says skins work for my ver of ME cause I hold my tongue just right when I install em )
Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The issue is not W98, the issue is wblinds3+ versions are not compatable with W98/ME I said it before, it was projected only for WXP and you left the rest behind All you would have to do is have two versions of wblinds out, one for W98/Me and WXP. It's just my opinion and I don't think its fair to force people to upgrade to WXP, on the other hand you may have a reason behind that so don't let my opinion kill your thread