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Don't Talk Religion At Garage Sales

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Don't Talk Religion At Garage Sales

It Could Elevate The Blood Pressure

from JoeUser Forums

I have a friend who loves to go to garage sales.  I can take them or leave them but do have an interesting time looking around when we go out.  Some days are good and we come home with some "bargains and treasures" and other days not so much.  One thing's for sure, we do meet some interesting people along the way.

Today not only did we grab a few things on the cheap side we also had an interesting discussion with one lady selling her wares in her very crowded garage. 

This neighborhood had 20 homes participating in a community garage sale.  You would have thought we were going to a state fair with all the traffic.  It was quite unbelievable at 7:45 in the morning with cars coming and going parking on both sides of the street for quite a distance.  We actually got stuck sitting in our golf cart not being able to move to the left or right as the traffic was in quite a jam on one of the narrow streets.  They couldn't move and we just sat there until somebody figured something out and traffic started moving again. 

So we went down one of the side streets, and I believe it was the last house we went to that we met this "interesting" lady. 

Upon entering her garage we saw quite a few Christian CD's/DVD's, books, etc and overheard her say they were materials from a church they had somewhere prior.  I overheard her mention that her husband is a Pastor so I spoke up and said mine was as well.  She told me the name of her denomination which I wasn't familiar with and went on to explain it was evangelical and biblical.  So far so good.  Some of the materials in her garage were by authors/singers I was familiar with and some not. 

As I was browsing, she went on to explain that another well known famous Pastor (whom I was quite familiar with and like) left her denomination over his belief that women shouldn't be Pastors.  So I told her, as I looked thru her CD's, that I would agree with that Pastor saying it wasn't my opinion but what the bible taught. 

We bought a few things and then prepared to leave, stopping to check one last box on the way out, when the lady got up from inside the garage and engaged us further in this conversation about women Pastors.  I'm thinking, after the fact, that she has quite an aggressive personality and she was just about to show us. 

She admitted to us then that she was a woman Pastor to which I said I would have a problem with that because the bible is clear that men were to be leaders in the church and the home.  She said the churches are missing out by not having woman pastors to which I respectfully disagreed.  At that point I explained that I think women have important roles to play in ministry just not as spiritual heads over men citing the roles of Adam and Eve and explaining that those roles got reversed and we've been paying for it ever since.  Not to mention that it's clearly outlined from the gospels on that men were to lead the church. 

She bristled at that and very sharply said in a loud voice "well I can see you don't want to hear what I have to say."  I was aghast since she not only followed us out she very clearly stated her position before I had my say.  As soon as I cited scripture explaining my position she got angry.  She then went on to give quite a lengthy explanation saying there are different flavors of ice cream for different tastes and mumbled something about the culture back then is different than today not giving anything but her opinion.  She said she didn't want to argue with me (she followed us out) and that it all comes down to essentials which I agree with.  She also said when all is said and done it's going to come down to "who do you say that I am" which I also agree with but if you're following Christ why would you deny His teaching and not live by His truth?  If this very clear mandate is not followed, what else do they believe?  To deny His word is to deny Him.    

Obviously this lady doesn't really, deep down, believe what she's trying to convince me is truth or she wouldn't have been angered so easily.  I barely said anything but evidently it was enough and to the point.  She obviously had nothing to go on but her opinion and the opinion of others.  For a woman Pastor you would have thought she would have given me something a bit more objective. 

As my husband says...all the time..."it is what it is." 

 

 

 

 

 

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Reply #101 from JoeUser Forums Top

leauki posts:

Yes, early Christians converted from Judaism. But the rest of your story is not quite accurate. Jews have often been unfriendly towards members of other Jewish sects (as Jesus pointed out in his story about the Samaritan). But they did not "persecute" them. The Romans, however, did persecute Jews, all the sects, including the new Messianic Jews, the Christians.
End of quote

 Re: the highlighted...that is another point altogether other than the one I was making in my post 91.  

 

lula post 91

But Scripture is clear that the Jews were hostile first to Christ then to the Jewish converts. In St. John, "for fear of the Jews" comes up quite often. So, yes, Jews were persecuting the first Christians who had converted from Judaism. Read the story of the man born blind but was healed by Jesus. Word of the miracle spread but the Jews who opposed Christ wouldn't believe it and in order to confirm the Jews sent for the blind man's parents (who were also Jewish), but they were intimidated, refusing to speak about it "out of fear of the Jews, who had already agreed to expel from the synagogue anyone who should acknowledge Jesus as the Christ." St.John 9:22.

End of quote

lula posts 91

There is no confusing the use of the word "Jew" in this context. A "Jew" is someone who is openly hostile to Christ and willing to persecute those Jews who accept Him as the Messias. "For fear of the Jews" here indicates that at this point in time the Jews were afraid of "Jews". The well-being of the Jews who accepted Christ was being threatened by the Jews who rejected Him.
End of quote

I've re-read my post 91. I can't see where I was inaccurate. As you can see, I addressed only those Jews who persecuted those Jews who believed in Christ, were baptized and became Christians.

Reply #102 from JoeUser Forums Top

From a strictly political viewpoint, you are correct.  In order to persecute, you have to have authority.  And since at the time of Christ, the Jews were not in charge, they could only discriminate or "be unfriendly" to the new sect. Even Herrod passed the buck.

End of quote

Yes.

But note that they discriminated against every other sect, including the new Christians and the old Samaritans and everybody else who wasn't orthodox Judaean. Jesus specifically pointed that out. The new Jewish sect around Jesus was formed as an answer to discrimination, it was not and in no way the specific group that was the victim of such discrimination.

All those sects discriminated against the others. Perhaps the early Christians didn't, but the Christians certainly did once they had the power to do so.

To speak of persecution of Christians by Jews or even discrimination against Christians by Jews is just wrong. The first is technically wrong and the second is misleading, as Christians were never* the specific targets of discrimination by any Jewish sect (at the time).

 

(*NB I read a few weeks ago about a case of Christians being discriminated by Jews in modern Israel. I point this out for completeness' sake. A Messianic Jew lost the kosher cert for his restaurant because he converted to Christianity and the Rabbinical authorities decided that a Christian cannot run a kosher restaurant in Israel. However, there are lots of Muslim-owned businesses that are certified kosher and hence the decision appeared to be Christian-specific after all.)

 

 

Siege of Centauri
Reply #103 from Stardock Forums Top

Perhaps the early Christians didn't, but the Christians certainly did once they had the power to do so.
End of quote

I would like to add that these were NOT Christians.  In name maybe but not in reality.  A Christian follows Christ.  A so called Christian doing any type of persecuting is NOT a Christian.  If they were, God would most likely take them out of commission.  I see it all the time even today in our mainstream churches.  Most of these "so called" Christians have a personal agenda.  Look at Judas.  From all outside appearances he looked just like the others.  But only God knew his dark, black heart.  It all comes out in the end.  He was taken out of commision quick enough.  See it all the time. 

Just like my newspapers all week have been filled with child sex abuses in the RCC.  I guess a huge scandal is breaking out all across Europe as we speak.  It started in Germany and is quickly spreading.  The Pope's brother is even involved.   Actually they are saying it really started in Ireland a few months ago.  This is NOT Christian.  But for years, they had the appearance of Christianity.  Christ's church (of which I'm a member of his body) would do no such things. 

You mentioned earlier that the RCC failed miserably.  I don't think anything's changed.  They've always been like this.  Look thru the centuries.  It's been a club of greed, power, influence, murder, sexual perversion and pride.  It's exactly the opposite of what Christ preached.  He said "you will know a tree by its fruit"

"Ireland which was until relatively recently the most enthusiastically Catholic country in Europe.  Its half-dozen seminaries exported priests worldwide.  All but one of those seminaries is closed now illustrating the rapid falloff in Mass attendance as the economy has advanced and secularism has spread."   AP wire

I've met some good Godly Catholics so I'm not talking about individuals here, but of an institution. 

the Rabbinical authorities decided that a Christian cannot run a kosher restaurant in Israel.
End of quote

shows the heriditary nature of these "Rabbinical authorities" since these were the same people who persecuted Jesus and His followers.  Paul, himself, being one of them in the beginning. 

the decision appeared to be Christian-specific after all.)
End of quote

As you know, there are exceptions but for the most part I don't hear much about Jews persecuting Christians.  Jews know more than anyone about persecution as they have been the most persecuted people of all time.  Christians are right behind them. 

 

Reply #104 from JoeUser Forums Top

I would like to add that these were NOT Christians.  In name maybe but not in reality.

End of quote

I agree.

But I was talking about the sect here, not the believers.

Whether at any given moment in time the sect "Christians" really are true Christians is another question.

 

Reply #105 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Leauki, reply 102
The new Jewish sect around Jesus was formed as an answer to discrimination, it was not and in no way the specific group that was the victim of such discrimination.
End of Leauki's quote

Interesting angle on the issue!  I have never heard it voiced that way before, but that is a good one!

 

Reply #106 from JoeUser Forums Top

Interesting angle on the issue!  I have never heard it voiced that way before, but that is a good one!

End of quote

I have a knack for getting a situation on the small scale.

What made people join Jesus? What made _good_ people join Jesus? Good people were not looking for quick salvation, they were looking for a way to change things to the better. (Good people are not so eager to receive quick salvation because they always think that they don't deserve it yet.)

I always thought that Jesus' story of the good Samaritan tells us the most about his quest. He was, after all, a Jew dealing with other Jews. It is obvious to me that he brought up real-life problems Jews had at the time.

 

Reply #107 from JoeUser Forums Top

As you know, there are exceptions but for the most part I don't hear much about Jews persecuting Christians.  Jews know more than anyone about persecution as they have been the most persecuted people of all time.  Christians are right behind them.

End of quote

Yes.

But most people still laugh when they hear the claim that Christians are being persecuted. (But on the other hand, many people also don't take persecution of Jews very seriously.)

The kosher restaurant example is not the type of persecution Christians are usually subject to. If that were it, we wouldn't have a problem.

 

Reply #108 from JoeUser Forums Top

(Good people are not so eager to receive quick salvation because they always think that they don't deserve it yet.)
End of quote

While I agree that most believe they have to work in some way to deserve salvation it's the ones who know they can't work hard enough and rely on His righteousness that receive it. 

Jesus brought up the prayers of two men.  One, a Pharisee, prayed that he was glad he wasn't like the sinners in his midst having no clue how sinful he really was.  The other, a humble sinner who knew he couldn't ever be righteous on his own, pleaded for Mercy from the God who is quite capable of releasing judgment on Him at any moment for his sin.  He went away justified, not the self-righteous Pharisee who thought he had no known sin.  

There's nothing long and hard about coming to salvation.  Christ did the work already.  It's all about belief and repentence.  We call it knowing your ABC's.  Admit, believe, confess.  

It's after the fact that is long and hard.  Because claiming Christ as Saviour does come with a price.  It's not easy to be a Christian in a world that has no use for such things.