Request for additional difficulty level between Crippling and Maso

I wholeheartedly agree. There should be a level in-between. Alternately, we should be able to have a slider that can be used to rate the ai. As far as I understand, the ai's craftiness can be deduced from a dingle number, 100(?) at intelligent, 150 at incredible. Being given a slidebar to adjust the dificulty would be cool too: The slider could be under a label which would show 'subnormal', 'intelligent', 'incredible', ... as the slider moves.

I couldn't agree more either. Winning on maso is more about getting lucky in my opinion than skill. Sometimes, no matter how good I'm playing, if I just don't get a decent setup system-wise or the good AIs don't tangle with the evil AIs early or I don't get enough random event choices to get me to good, I'm in trouble. I know there's' some skill in hanging on maso even with getting things to break your way but when I win on maso, I feel like it is almost because of something other than me. Crippling is usually smooth sailing for me and I can usually win despite making some poor decisions or catching bad breaks. I actually find crippling more enjoyable because I feel like when I win it is because of me instead of in spite of me.

I agree Don. Crippling is piece of cake, whatever the settings I chose. Maso is too hard for me (unless I get really lucky) and there is nothing in-between.

theyre not intelligent at all i can still trick them often but the only thing that really change between difficulty is that the AI cheats, and when i mean cheat they cheat for real which is pissing me off

I agree. Playing maso is like playing on a bad hair day: it is a nightmare and not fun. An intermediate level would be excellent.

I don't agree with a lot of the comments about maso, but I wholeheartedly agree that the gap is very large, and hence an intermediate AI level would be a good thing. AFAIK, the only difference is the degree of bonuses, so this should be easy to add in...

(On the other hand, fixing some of the tactical ship movement stuff might make crippling and maso a lot harder...)

I have been able to beat 1.05 Maso but needed the help of a v good starting position, luck, and heavy employment of the Rush. Also a lot of micromanagement to squeeze every last drop of advantage out of the game. I obviously lose a lot.

I have dropped down to Crippling. I played a Tiny/Abundant but stopped half way because I managed to Rush and capture 1/2 the map in a very short time so victory is moot.

I am now playing Gigantic/Abundant. I've had much better starting positions but using +1spd, I now have in excess of 100 colonies (incldg PQ13+14s), leading in all impt categories and have built every wonder and TG so far. The year is about 2185 and personally I think the game is won. I'm rather confident that I would be able to beat Crippling consistently.

So an intermediate level would be nice.

The only issue I can think of in adding an intermediate level is to decide on whether this level would attract all the game nerfs that have been introduced in Maso (eg. TG and Tech for money nerf)

Yeah, 1.05 Maso is very difficult, but with proper micro which is a huge pain in the butt, it's possible to win the whole thing.

Getting the first TGs is important, but difficult, and quite a guessing game because there isn't any extra cash for expionage.

Crippling is fairly easy - well relatively easy.

The problem I have with maso is that the AI beats solely you on the inherent advantages, map reveal, economy bonus, etc. rather than military strategy, diplomatic action, and infrastructure.

So when in a win on Maso, it is because the AI by some stroke of luck decided to waste away their advantages rather than because the strategy used was brilliant and unstoppable.

Playing against incredible AI is certainly a nightmare.

Aren't there some AI features that aren't activated at Intelligent? I thought there was going to be a difficulty level where the AI plays its best, but doesn't get any bonuses.

I usually set all AI's on random (because it is more fun for me) and did not yet get a Crippling or Maso Game... (it averages out lower)

Whenever there was at least one Increadible AI within the game I lost to them just like the other lowerlevel AIs...

Note that a game with 1 Increadible AI and 4 Fools will have the difficulty "beginner" but it is a whole lot harder than a "crippling" game with everyone set to genius. (funny to see how fequently these "The X have finally succumbed to the relentless power of the Y." messages come in when you try it)

I agree that the AI suxk at being intelligent expecially in higher difficulty since they cant even use these ­"ultimate" advantage they have early on and i find it rather stoopid that no one could actually win in maso without a proper starting position.

Maybe i sound like a jerk but when someone would play chest with a guy that has an army of queen it can get a lot frustrating because it isn't fair at all, i rather see the AI with incredible micro management tatical combat and good diplomatic dealership.

Brad specifically mentioned this a while back as something that would be included in the expansion. Haven't heard it mentioned in a while.

Ray,

I agree. I too have dropped back from Maso to Crippling. Basically, I found that the game was almost immediately over if I started in a bad position, or one of the Brilliant AI's got the Draginol event too early.

Wreally decided the issue for me is, playing Maso in GalCiv is very reminiscent of playing Deity in Civ3:

- The AI's bonuses make it far better to tech-whore (and catch up from behind) than research anything yourself;

- all the early TG's are obtainable by the AI long before you can possibly achieve them yourself (in one game, I had a Minor get Grav Accelerators on turn 3;

- Diplomatic penalties make it unlikely, even with 3 trade routes, and AI Empire will move beyond "normal" relations;

- Unless certain "tricks" are employed (like always taking +1 speed; building a fleet of Starfighters first, etc.), you are almost certain to lose.

Overall, I felt playing Maso was more of a chore than a challenge; the computer did not win by improved strategies/tactics, but by brute force in out-researching/out-producing me. I decided if I wanted that, I'd go back to reading Sirian & BamSpeedy's posts and hone my Civ3 skills some more.

For this reason, I also would like to see an intermediate difficulty level between the current Crippling and Maso. Crippling is rather easy for me to win on at this point.

There are some advantages I have found to playing Maso, however:

- it is easier to see the various computer strategies in operation at this level. Since Brilliant AI's start with extra money, PQ-bonuses & ships, they reach the "mid-game" point of development quicker. You will start to see their respective differences far earlier in the game.

- On a Large/Huge map, no AI's will be eliminated by each other early on (which usually happens to either the Torians or Yor on Crippling);

- It is easier to tech-whore and sell TG's (when you do finally get some of the mid-level ones) since there is more money in AI Empire (and Minor's )hands, and since the AI values techs not at your beaker cost , but at its own, discounted one;

- There are some "logic-gaps" in the AI's planetary development. Since Maso imparts an automatic (free) PQ- & production-bonus, they wait to build these improvements. Thus, you'll capture planets producing high-maintenance, low-benefit buildings (like Med Centers) while banks, research labs, soil enhancers, fusion PP's, etc. are left undone. Over time, by following a more prudent development course, you will eventually overtake even Maso-level AI's in Mfg capacity and revenue;

- AI's will now colonize sub-PQ15 worlds, but only if they get a +PQ random event; for this reason, you can let them grab the event, invade, and (although you lose their inherent PQ-bonus) you get a better quality planet out of it without taking an "evil" hit to your morality; in effect, it is easier to maintain (and achieve) Saintly status in Maso if you are patient and play your cards right!

Anyway, that's my 2,103 turkish lira. I will probably step back up to Maso once I compete my current (Crippling) game, since 1.05.047 did correct the diplomatic-relations imbalance, and I'm looking for a harder game again.

~SDC~

My last game was one of these All AI's Random, 2 Sub-Normal, 2 Normal and well... one Increadible...

What the hell can one do to compete with an increadible AI???

After ten turns they already held 2/3 of the spend power of the whole galaxy... When one of my colonyships scouted one of their core-systems in the early 2180, it found a SB with enough modules
Short aftrer that they requested 3600 BC from me. I denied and so they immediately went to war.
They also had war with all the other races except perhaps the Altarians since they had some pop left before I lost my last colony.

I recently played with 4 geniuses and incredible Yors. It's about the only time I saw the Yor conquer half the galaxy in no time.

Maybe they loose their stupidness at Increadible... On genius they keep loosing a majority of their planets to the I-League...

I agree. I can win on Maso when I get a good starting position but it requires a lot of tedious stuff. It gets really obnoxious when every few turns I have to try to turn my one tech into eight by a whole series of careful trades. But after playing several maso games, crippling becomes really easy unless you get a dreadful start.

It would that most if not all of our Incredible AI players, except of course "I still own Maso in my sleep" Staffa have reported in to agree on an intermediate level. Let's hope we get to see this in the Expansion pack.

Thats not even an accurate quote anymore

In fact, by putting in the word 'still' its an
outright misquote.

I said I could 'beat' maso in my sleep back in 1.035
when you could still trade techs for massive cash
and wonders were still very abusable. I never said I
could 'still' beat maso easily, in fact I have said
quite the opposite.

And yes, maso has been so beefed up that another level
between crippling and maso would make sense.

Please stop using that quote! You cant even use it
accurately

And I hate it, it was said at the height of my
arguement with frogboy about the problems with trade
goods in the current 1.035 versions when he assumed
I was cheating cause he didnt understand how bad the
actual problem was.

Anyway, Ray, you have to admit that 1.035 maso was
abit to easy with those abuses.

Back when I played(ok last week) I only won about 10%
of my maso games that I actually played out past turn
10. On 1.035 that quote wasnt that much of an exageration.

I keep saying that because I know it irritates you LOL but it did get you back posting on the board, so it served some purpose after all.

Seriously though, you are our best Galciv player by far and we know you said that in an exaggerated manner then to make your point.

Are you still gaming (Galciv or others)? It is afterall your hols.

Considering how much cash trades for tech is still
being abused, they should move the maso no cash
for tech nerf to crippling.

Of course, we could just up the difficulty of crippling instead of adding a level but I was thinking of the fact that Stardock has announced a new Nightmare level for the Expansion pack.

With many of the better players on this board already talking about how mind-numbing it is to play 1.05 Maso, I really wonder if the new Nightmare level is going to get played at all.

Heck, having to deal with battleships in year 5 with frigates is already tough. Nightmare level could mean dealing with battleships with starfighters (which is obviously impossible once the fleet defense bug gets fixed).

CariElf stated in another Thread that the fleet defense Bug is fixed and so the next update will remove it.

I also really see absolutely no sense in adding an AI-lever higher than Increadible when someone like Staffa states that he wins only 10% of his maso games...

I think beefing up Intelligent and Genius and maybe adding something a bit higher than Genius is the way to go.