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Munchkins on the net?

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Munchkins on the net?

from JoeUser Forums

Back in the OS/2 days, Microsoft got caught using what were called “Microsoft Munchkins” (coined by John Dvorak).  Essentially these were guys whose job was to smear OS/2.

Anyone who has had to deal with these kinds of users whether it be on Wikipedia or some forum tends to be able to spot these guys since they usually create accounts only to smear a particular product or service (or boost a product or service).

As many people know, I spend a lot of time online and thankfully, I haven’t seen anything that struck me as peculiar until very recently when suddenly, comments on articles regarding Impulse have detractors appearing out of nowhere. I.e. they create an account specifically to smear Impulse usually saying things that really sound like FUD.

Now, I might think Impulse is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I would be the first to admit that the average person isn’t passionate about digital distribution or development platforms. Certainly not passionate enough to bother creating a new account just to smear something.

I’m inclined to chalk it up to just the usual Internet junk. Maybe people are more into this kind of thing than I thought.

So I thought I’d hand it over to you guys and see what you think.

Here are examples:

http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=62814

User called Gahenna creates an account on Shacknews just to smear Impulse Reactor.

“From my limited experience with Impulse, it's interface is garbage and slow, there's nothing worth purchasing (everything is D list or worse). It's not even close to the same league as Steam.”

Within 24 hours Gamautra puts up its Impulse::Reactor thing and sure enough, a user pops up who has never posted before anywhere as far as anyone can tell.

“While I appreciate the competition with Valve's service, Impulse seems to provide a much lower quality service”

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27687/Stardocks_Wardell_Details_Impulse_Reactor_Specifics.php

And on the same day or so 1Up puts up their article:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178341

And a user called “Grizzt” (real name “dasd asd”) and writes:

“i tried there service before it wasnt quite up to par with steam or the other services i tried.”

Okay, maybe there’s just a dedicated fanboy out there. Or maybe it’s a different fan boy writing up the same points over and over.  Thanks to the anonymity of the Internet, nobody knows. Heck, maybe Impulse just sucks in ways I never realized.

The writing style seems different to me. I’m no expert but it doesn’t seem like it’s the same person.

It’s probably just coincidence. But there’s a lot of news items on Stardock on various sites and it’s pretty unusual to see such…dedication.

What do you think?

220,208 views 89 replies
Reply #26 from Demigod Forums Top

well beliving that 2 distrubuting platforms mean cheaper game prices i not really acurate since its the game makers that decide on the price of title.

For me it just will inconvinient to have run 2 clients to play my games. I really dont see any pros of having impulse reactor right now.

Imagine if same game will be released on 2 platforms. I doubt they will be able to play with each others, so that will most likely mean dived multiplayer base which is never a good thing.

Wonder if reactor will get voip on launch and do better job with stats and matchmaking compared to what demigod get.

"You seem ready to bow down to your valve overlords. Ready to accept a total throat grip on the digital market. Ready to accept what ever they say as a total monopoly."

Let me ask what exactly steam did wrong to deserve such harsh words. Having 10 or 20 distriution platforms wont change game prices nither give you any positive outcome in long run.

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting irek1988, reply 26
well beliving that 2 distrubuting platforms mean cheaper game prices i not really acurate since its the game makers that decide on the price of title.

For me it just will inconvinient to have run 2 clients to play my games. I really dont see any pros of having impulse reactor right now.

Imagine if same game will be released on 2 platforms. I doubt they will be able to play with each others, so that will most likely mean dived multiplayer base which is never a good thing.

Wonder if reactor will get voip on launch and do better job with stats and matchmaking compared to what demigod get.

"You seem ready to bow down to your valve overlords. Ready to accept a total throat grip on the digital market. Ready to accept what ever they say as a total monopoly."

Let me ask what exactly steam did wrong to deserve such harsh words. Having 10 or 20 distriution platforms wont change game prices nither give you any positive outcome in long run.
End of irek1988's quote

You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. Competition does lower prices. Company A wants to sell thier product, so they lower thier price below company B's. Company B sees this and lowers thier price as well.  Voila, lower prices due to compition.

Also, different distribution platforms change nothing about mutliplayer. If you buy a game on Steam and someone else buys that same game on Impulse, you will still be able to play each other online.

Monopolies are bad, period. It reduces quaility in every area since you have no competition to push you to be better.

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #28 from Demigod Forums Top

Well I put steam and impulse shop side by side on my pc.

As far as price war goes steam wins. Not only average game is about 5$ cheaper but also they have lot more bundle deals (which mean extra saving). Also many new titles are missing on Impulse: Bioshock 1 and 2, Moder warfare 2, AVP, no quake series at all to name fev.  No to mention almost 500 games under 10$. Quite fev demos and even open betas (RUSE atm).

All of these above dosnt seem like a work of monopolist to me. More like solid company who offers good value for money spend with them. I wish SD could achive such success

Ps. Forgot to mention that steam recognized my pc setting and installed polish GUI. It has 20 language version compared to 1 from impulse.

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting irek1988, reply 28
Well I put steam and impulse shop side by side on my pc.

As far as price war goes steam wins. Not only average game is about 5$ cheaper but also they have lot more bundle deals (which mean extra saving). Also many new titles are missing on Impulse: Bioshock 1 and 2, Moder warfare 2, AVP, no quake series at all to name fev.  No to mention almost 500 games under 10$. Quite fev demos and even open betas (RUSE atm).

All of these above dosnt seem like a work of monopolist to me. More like solid company who offers good value for money spend with them. I wish SD could achive such success

Ps. Forgot to mention that steam recognized my pc setting and installed polish GUI. It has 20 language version compared to 1 from impulse.
End of irek1988's quote

Actually, if you want a history lession, most of those deals were started after Impulse and other platforms started offering good deals to beat out Steam. Before Impulse and other distribution platforms were available there were hardly any 'deals' at all. In fact, once Impulse started offing weekend sales, Steam jumped right on the bandwagon.

Reply #30 from Demigod Forums Top

"You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. Competition does lower prices. Company A wants to sell thier product, so they lower thier price below company B's. Company B sees this and lowers thier price as well.  Voila, lower prices due to compition.

Also, different distribution platforms change nothing about mutliplayer. If you buy a game on Steam and someone else buys that same game on Impulse, you will still be able to play each other online.

Monopolies are bad, period. It reduces quaility in every area since you have no competition to push you to be better."

Rubish. SD and steam have nothing to say about price of game expect their marge (which is 5-10%)

Also Impulse reactor and steam will be matchmaking services for games. And if game owner decides to release their game on those 2 platforms its very unlike they will share players list among each other, especially since they both will be reckording ladders and stats.

 

Here frogboy you got fanboy too. He dosnt know what to say, how to say or when to say but he will alway come to rescue when someones will say somethin that even looks bad about you or ur product.

Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top

All I can add is irritated customers will do this.  I don't think you necessarily need to look for an explanation on this.

Hell, I've done it wrt Dawn of Wars less than stellar install experiences with Windows x64.  It'd already been complained about enough, but I was irritated.

So while it's possible it's a fanboy response, it could just as easily be a real response.

If I had to guess, the few times I've had to troubleshoot a game install on Impulse should never have happened in most peoples eyes.  Some people are far less willing to deal with things like that.

I prefer Impulse, but I don't always feel it offers the better enduser experience.

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

Do you know what 'improve' means? Perhas 'progress'? Maybe even just 'change'?

 

Also Steam is competing with many other entitys, not just other digital platforms I buy most of my games for cheaper retail than steam offers anyway.

 

You also forgot to mention Impulses front page isn't very nice with not enough space dedicated to the "new" and "comming soon" etc tabs like steam has (people are lazy, they don't click 'more'). IMO that whole box should be for the tabs with a row of adverts below them and the best sellers list.

Reply #33 from Demigod Forums Top

well if SD is so great and pionering i give 2 tasks:

find 2 demos on impulse

find 5 games that are cheaper on impulse compared to steam

Good luck with it you will need cheaps of it.

Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting irek1988, reply 30

Rubish. SD and steam have nothing to say about price of game expect their marge (which is 5-10%)
End of irek1988's quote

Excactly, they reduce their profit margin to sell games and gain customers. You answered you're own question.


Quoting irek1988, reply 30

Also Impulse reactor and steam will be matchmaking services for games. And if game owner decides to release their game on those 2 platforms its very unlike they will share players list among each other, especially since they both will be reckording ladders and stats.
End of irek1988's quote

While I doubt a game will be released with both Steamworks and Impusle reactor(they are competing services after all) I would think some smart programmers could figure out a way to make them work together. 

Quoting irek1988, reply 30

Here frogboy you got fanboy too. He dosnt know what to say, how to say or when to say but he will alway come to rescue when someones will say somethin that even looks bad about you or ur product.
End of irek1988's quote

It's not fanboyism when you speak with facts rather then misinformation.

Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting irek1988, reply 33
well if SD is so great and pionering i give 2 tasks:

find 2 demos on impulse

find 5 games that are cheaper on impulse compared to steam

Good luck with it you will need cheaps of it.
End of irek1988's quote

Two demo's - Sins of a Solar Empire Demo, Demigod Demo, Making History Gold Demo, plus many more.

And I don't have time to search for games and crap, because I already know Steam has a large library and most likely better ability to lower prices. Economics of scale makes it much easier for Steam to lower prices then anyone else. However, with no competition, they have no reason to lower prices - which is why competitoion is good, and the whole point of my argument.

EDIT: You're trying to act like I said Impulse was gold and Steam is crap - which is not the case. My only point is that competition is good and that multiplayer shouldn't be a problem.

 

Reply #36 from Demigod Forums Top

Ohh lets see 5% from 40$ its like 2$ right? hmm huge diffrence.

So how come red faction guerilla costs 99.95 on impulse and 69.99 on steam? I can find many examples that steam is cheaper but cant find any of impulse being cheaper.

Also free demos and beta are really of intrest to many people. How many on impulse? 0 on steam? 250 and ruse beta atm.

 

Artacian polish gaming comunity rebeled againts ubisoft drm. They resending same game key to one another and downloading game image from rapidshare. Since owner legaly bought the game he has right to sell it when he finished using it, even if he wishesh to do it for 0$.

Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting irek1988, reply 36
Ohh lets see 5% from 40$ its like 2$ right? hmm huge diffrence.

So how come red faction guerilla costs 99.95 on impulse and 69.99 on steam? I can find many examples that steam is cheaper but cant find any of impulse being cheaper.

Also free demos and beta are really of intrest to many people. How many on impulse? 0 on steam? 250 and ruse beta atm.

 

Artacian polish gaming comunity rebeled againts ubisoft drm. They resending same game key to one another and downloading game image from rapidshare. Since owner legaly bought the game he has right to sell it when he finished using it, even if he wishesh to do it for 0$.
End of irek1988's quote

I'm not getting into a pissing match over which distributor is better. That was never my intention because, as Frogboy has even said, Steam has the edge up on everyone in nearly every catagory. However, to act as though competition is going to somehow make things worse rather than better is plain ignorant.

Reply #38 from Demigod Forums Top

I didnt said it make things worse. I said it wont change anything.

About demos you said. none of them can be download from impulse or they are very well hidden. I found link on impulse forum which leads to fileplanet.com. Please can you post direct impulse link. It sad that this makes you look like fanboy who dosnt check what he is posting, just blindly defending its master.

Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top

All I did was open my Impulse program and I have 4 demos available for download without any searching and no external links.

I actually don't know how you would go about searching for a Demo in Impulse. One thing I can agree with is that the UI in Impulse can use a lot of work. And, as I said before, competition has already changed things. Steam now does Weekend deals, which it didn't do before Impulse started.

Reply #40 from Demigod Forums Top

You cant find them. When i type in demo into search box it onyl show 2 games.

There is no separate section or tab for demos. You need to manually search every title to see if it got demo version linked to it.

 

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

For me it just will inconvinient to have run 2 clients to play my games. I really dont see any pros of having impulse reactor right now.
End of quote

I guess you have missed an important point about impulse reactor (which isn't available yet): game with it doesn't require Impulse to be installed or launched. Game with Impulse reactor doesn't require an external client.

Contrary to Steamworks which require the Steam client and the steam store, games with Impulse reactor can be played (in single player and multiplayer) without having Impulse.  See here http://forums.impulsedriven.com/378254 for a summary of key point of the Impulse::reactor SDK.

 

 

Reply #42 from Stardock Forums Top

You need to manually search every title to see if it got demo version linked to it.
End of quote

 

... so?  Do you randomly browse around for demos or something?  It's not that big of a deal!

So how come red faction guerilla costs 99.95 on impulse and 69.99 on steam? I can find many examples that steam is cheaper but cant find any of impulse being cheaper.
End of quote

This argument is fail, as red faction guerilla costs 19.99 dollars on Impulse, not 99.95.  I have to assume you made a major typo... and don't forget, for our poor European gamers, a sixty dollar game costs them closer to a hundred on Steam because of the lack of currency conversion!

Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top

Dang it...I gotta go...Just tagging this in my recent list to look at later.

-Twilight Storm

Reply #44 from Stardock Forums Top

Great discussion!

I'm in the middle of book editing so I'll try to be succinct in responding to points:

  • Re competition and pricing.  Steam (and Direct2Drive) had literally years that they could have been doing weekend sales and Christmas sales. But they didn't.  It wasn't until Impulse showed up in 2008 and started doing "Weekend Impulse Buys" and the "12 days of Christmas" in 2008 that suddenly all the services started doing it.  Archive.org is a wonderful tool for those are in doubt.  So if you like those weekend Steam sales, thank Impulse.
     
  • Re what is a "fanboy".  My specific definition is when someone's support of something requires cognitive dissonance.
     
  • Re betas on Steam. Irek1988, are you seriously saying that Steam finally getting its first beta somehow constitutes an advantage over Impulse? Impulse has been running betas for years. Alpha and Beta nomanclature is built into Impulse and has from day 1.  
     
  • Re demos. There are lots of demos on Impulse and have been since day 1.  But I'll go further and say that I predict two years from now the majority of content on Impulse will be freeware. The challenge has always been about the speed of getting stuff up. The highest priority has been building Impulse's catalog. Again, Archive.org is a useful tool. A year ago, Impulse had mainly indie titles.  Today, it has EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc.  But seriously, suggesting that Impulse isn't full of demos is absurd.
     
  • Re monopolist.  Steam doesn't have a monopoly. It simply *wants* a monopoly in my opinion. The business model for Steamworks is pretty clearly to me based on getting titles exclusively on Steam.  I wonder if Valve will ever publicize how much they paid Epic (the term "shit load" was bandied around GDC to get Steamworks into the Unreal rengine. That isn't a case of "the market" of "consumers deciding". It's a smart business move though.
     
  • Re People pretending to know information they don't.  Irek, seriously, you need to quit posting as if you somehow know something on digital distribution.  You have no idea how it works based on what you said.  Every contract with every publisher is different. The margins on titles varies widely (and incidentally it's typically 30%.  If it were 5% to 10% I would happily have just handed our software to Steam.

    My motivation for supporting Impulse comes from the fear that many developers have -- that a single dominant party can indeed set the prices. You have no idea how wrong you are when you talk about pricing, Irek.   You want to know why Sins of a Solar Empire isn't on Steam? I'll tell you, because I don't want to ever get an email from my Steam rep telling me that they're going to put my game on sale for $5 and if I don't like it, they'll bury all our titles so that they can only be found via searching.  Anyone who talked to indie developers knows this fear well.   
     
  • Re Monopolies in general. You don't need to have a monopoly to be able to call the shots. Ever wonder what happened to user manuals? Thank Walmart. Their market dominance is such that when they mandated an arbitrary size for PC game titles (skinny and too small to fit a perfect bound manual) it meant all game boxes at all retailers became that way because it would be too expensive to manufacture two different packages.  And Walmart only has around 30% of the retail PC market by my estimation. Steam has 67%.  Imagine a future where Valve mandates that any title on Steam MUST have Steamworks integrated. They don't have quite that kind of dominance yet (since digital dominance is much more fleeting that retail -- hence BuyMusic.com crushed by iTunes who came later) but it's one of those unreported stories that game developers, when they get together (like at GDC) discuss a lot.  
     
  • Re Impulse::Reactor's impetus.  Reactor isn't a platform in search of a demand. It's a platform answering a demand from game developers and publishers who want an alternative (see above).
     
  • Re "I don't want multiple digital distributors". This falls under cognitive dissonance.  Only someone not worth having a conversation with would argue that we would be better off if there were only iTunes.  I get movies from Comcast, Zune (Xbox 360), Netflix AND iTunes. Each one is not just a different distributor but a very significantly different platform whose content is not interchangeable.  Yet we do it and few people wish that the others would go away.  I like them all and I like them all competing.
Phew!
Back to editing.

Reply #45 from Stardock Forums Top

So how come red faction guerilla costs 99.95 on impulse and 69.99 on steam? I can find many examples that steam is cheaper but cant find any of impulse being cheaper.
End of quote

Huh?

They're the same price on both services: 19.99.

http://www.impulsedriven.com/rfguerilla

http://store.steampowered.com/app/20500/

And while we're discussing that THQ title, you may notice that the THQ bundle is $99.99 on both but they're not created equal -- the Impulse THQ bundle includes Supreme Commander and Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance which isn't available on Steam.

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top

On Impulse, for Europe, Red faction guerilla costs 49.99 Euros while the red faction pack (which contains RF1, RF2 and RF guerilla) costs 44.99 euros

Reply #47 from Demigod Forums Top

Ron

It says 91.49 US and 99.99 AUS. Check before posting or give link to your 20$ version. I am looking at it right now.

demos

Yes i do. I browse thru genre and install them coz they free. If i like them I buy them. Especially when its a new game I would like to see whats coming out.

Besides having video trailer, screenshots, reviews and game forum link on one side is really handy. Where on impulse I need to move to another tab and search for game again to watch trailer (what a rediculus idea).

And it is not due to steam being richer, more popular etc. It is simply good design and well planing - that dosnt cost much money.

PS.

I guess you have missed an important point about impulse reactor (which isn't available yet)

which isn't available yet - So you dont know what you gonna get and how reactor will look like or will you need impulse to download updates for games and actual games etc.etc. But you are sure that I am wrong and missed the point right? Help me Im lost here.

I really dont mind launching steam shop when want to play a game (same as I have to launch impulse to play demigod). Reason is : it gives you voip, it is cross platform, shop is cheap, GUI is well made and translated into 20 languages, lets me enlist as beta tester without begging for beta keys.

But maybe you right. Maybe I driffted off a bit.

 

Reply #48 from Demigod Forums Top

here screen shot

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8703/68554005.jpg

Just for you brad

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/2520/91238162.jpg

After "show in US button"

Reply #49 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting irek1988, reply 47

which isn't available yet - So you dont know what you gonna get and how reactor will look like or will you need impulse to download updates for games and actual games etc.etc. But you are sure that I am wrong and missed the point right? Help me Im lost here.
End of irek1988's quote

Yes, we do.  It's been demonstrated already.  No, you won't need Impulse.  WRT that point, you're definately wrong.

Reply #50 from Stardock Forums Top

You take too much to heart Brad.  You should be proud of this, because Impulse is now a big enough of a threat to strike fear into fanboys.

Pretty soon you won't just be hearing from the Steam fanboys, but also from 360 and PS3 fanboys......