Help with Beast

I know you didn't ask this, but I would suggest finding a demigod you are good with or comfortable using and stick with it.

Anyways, I am the last person to be speaking on about UB, but I would say just go botf, spit/ooze, and stake HP items. All ways carry sigils and teleports to help survive sticky situations. He really can kill anyone if he is played right but tough early, mind, and late opponents to avoid are 2 v 1 when you are the 1. Only reason I a UB should be leading in levels is when the QoT and TB are slacking off on creep control. Someone elses may be alittle more helpful.

BotS can be used for spit spamming. Make sure you hit towers with it frequently if you use bots. Every time it's off of cooldown. BotF makes you much stronger and lets you ooze longer. If you get bots, don't get a helm. If you get BotF, I suggest: banded armor, vlemish helm (or plenor on leviathan), nimoth armor, unbreakable boots, and hauberk of life. Unbreakables are the best item in the game, nimoth gives you a ton of armor, hauberk will give you just a bit more health. Narmoth's ring is a nice thing to have if you have the money, but don't get it over giants or currency.

No one. The Unclean Beast has an excellent early game. You will devastate TB and Regulus. Oculus, QoT, and sometimes LE will be the only characters near your strength in the early game.

You ask your general teammates to send you a monk. If you have no general teammates, buy priests ASAP and push hard. A monk will make you much more effective because of ooze.

Thanks for the advice guys.  I've pretty much been doing all of these things, and the buy list for both BOTS and BOTF are nearly identical to what I've been trying. Guess I just need more practice with him

I've mainly been trying BOTS and no helm, so switching to botf might make for some more surviveability.

Any reccomendations on starting gear?  I've been going banded+scale mail when I use BOTS and banded+scale helm when I go BOTF, though I saw some mention of potions being or more use than either scale at the start.

crap.. just lost what I was writing.

Anyway.. the big thing here is that it really depends on who you are facing, including the build.  For example, hybrid is no good against a combo like sedna, erabus, oak (all melee, all have ways to remove spit easily).  But, assuming you're against a combo where spit will be good:

First purchase should be a helm in nearly all cases.  But which one?  Are you spitting occasionally on someone who doesnt have a monk but is just sitting behind the tower?  Are you spitting occasionally on a tower but can't run up and hit it due to someone cowering behind it?  Then get vlemish.  Are you saving your mana until a sure battle and going until someone walks away with very little hp?  Then get plenor.  Next purchase should almost always be unbreakable boots.  After that nimoth chestplate.  Sometimes I'll get boots of speed at this point, other times I'll save for a Narmoth Ring (4000g).  Maybe a Hauberk of life.  meh.

Around level 7, you should ALWAYS have a sigil / teleport on you.  Save your grasps for interrupts, to help your teammates catch up, or to prevent someone from shielding / sigiling until their death (i.e. 2 of you are beating on a qot.  Spit on her, attack and wait for her shield to drop, then grasp and spit again to break the grasp and continue attacking.  This allows the most damage possible before she reshields).  Other good uses are if you think someone will run away, you spit then grasp right before you think they will run and spit again.

If you don't get a monk from a general, start crying immediately.  I know I do every single time.  This post is taking forever while I hop in and out of games.  Sooo that's it for now

read ur last question before my post.. bots generally seems much weaker.  You lose out on the ability to hold a lane early game unless the enemy team just lets you walk up and spit the tower.  I would suggest sticking with botf but w/e.

I almost always get banded + scaled helm if I'm going hybrid.  Potions and gadgets at level 1 to get a kill only provide marginal gold (like 100-200g) and marginal staying power to level up faster than the guy you killed... IF you get the kill.  Otherwise you wasted 275-500g on a potion / gadget / sigil while the other guy got more armor.  

Lol at people who think 800 hp is better then infinite mana...

Not to mention bots gives u back 1 or sometimes 2 slots you would normally use to put helms in for hp and armor stacking or 1 hp item and 1 speed item.

Bots beast is weaker early game and need to be more carefull but at lvl 7 when botf beast will go shop to get 2nd helmet i will be wearing my 3rd armor and that 800 hp gap will be lowered to 200hp, but i will also have infinite mana

There is really no point comparing those two

Qot. OC, LE, Sedna, and TB; These are the characters who can benefit more from having infinite mana that a UB. These are the characters that Bots should have been limited to, but sadly it was not.

....

You are not competive player. I see no reason to discuss with you advanced builds/strategies.

You get raped out there is you think UB dosnt need mana.

Blade of the serpent beast dubles their damage compared to botf. I can spit 3-4 times and grasp 2 times my target before thanks to it. I can destroy tower at lvl 2 if I have empty line without going back to crystal afterwards.

At level 10 2 extra spits equals 3000 damage + you get double grasp (instant 2 second long stun). Not to mention all items I have are HP items. Banned, 1500 boots, 1500 armor, Namroth ring, Groffin warplate or gridle of giants if gold allows.

To synworld:
How would f..n sedna benefit from Bots is she got no freakin AOE (except lvl 10 heal which is pathethic). Same goes to ereb (you will get little more mana than what u spendent on batswarm to kill creeps, mist dosnt allow to be healed or recive mana).

Now when I spit on you walk back a little then put my ooze on spit on you again then grasp, breake my grasp with bots I get full mana back especially when there are creeps or minions around. Now I can again spit twice and grasp. And only speed stacking or 'stunning and porting' is able to save you.

You seems to be online im happy to play 1v1 bots vs botf beasts match againts you.

"Uh-huh yea of course you don't. Advanced builds and strategy my ass; majority of it all is the same stuff over and over again."

If thats true you will have no problem to beat me. Come show us how good you are...

off topic - if you have firefox, get the lazarus add in.  If posts disappear for whatever reason, this add in saves what you posted so its not gone forever

on topic -

pros to botf ub

• no micromangement required for the favor item (1 click = health bonus entire game)
  
• higher hp gives you greater durability the entire game

pros to bots ub

• you can spam spit over and over (which means towers drop faster and you can damage other dg's more easily if you can kite successfully)
• you don't necessarily need to puchase ANY mana items for your character (but probably should get a helm - imo anyway)

I'm a pretty old hand with ub and I side firmly on the BOTF UB.  In pretty much all versions of my build, I devote exactly 1 helm to mana and I find that to be quite adequate.  So, the other side is that, depending on your play style (and I'm talking about a ub build that maxes spit and ooze), you don't need infinite mana.  The extra health actually makes a nice difference to me.  And remember, in 3v3's the target is usally the most squishy chracter (eg the 1 with the lowest hp or that dies that fastest).  My ub typically has the most hp and is the most durable, so I can typically wail on anyone that prioritized my teammate instead of me. 

bleah...

Like i said before that helmet you will get will be mine 1700 armor so we gonna ended up with 200 hp diffrence. Bots UB dont need helmet 1500 bots are good enoungh mana storage.

Now u get 200 more hp I get 1 extra grasp and 2 extra spits.... Hmm wonder who will win...

irek... yes... GRATS YOU WILL WIN 1v1.  I heard that's the only scenario possible.  At least you sure seem to be saying that.

anything higher and 1 helm + unbreakables is sufficient mana to win a battle.  You also lose the benefit early game for holding a lane.  Sooo the other team can capitalize on WS, get extra gold from currency first, maybe push a tower down, have a decent lead going into midgame, etc.  Not saying BOTS is worthless, just that BOTF is not nearly as worthless as you're making it out to be.

All I can say is play some games with it. You will realize that having almost unlimite spit and grasp will help you much more to hold line againts anyone. And extra damage output will benefit your team much more middle and late game then your early staying advantage.

Sure I know that there is only one build one true favor item and one true item set. People who spread blashphemy like me should crucified.

*sigh*

Beast players.

Oh and I see how it makes more sense for a damn reg to be able to get it instead of a oc or queen.

[Oh and I see how it makes more sense for a damn reg to be able to get it instead of a oc or queen.[/quote]

You don't play assassins. Your opinion is invalidated by lack of expierence.

Second, mines don't work with BotS which greatly decreases the reason that he would get it.

Since when? Last time I checked TB was my second most used demigod, I don't use melee demigod which both Generals and assassins have.

From levels 1-6, BotF is stronger. From level 7+, BotS is stronger. I always go BotS. While you won't be able to hold flags in the early game, I find that levels 1-6 comprise smaller portion of the game than levels 7+.

Thanks for the in depth analysis everyone.  I've been using BOTS almost exclusively, so that might explain why I've gotten caught off guard (i.e. killed) early.  I do enjoy the infinite mana (when I remember to click the favor item), but I'lll try it both ways to see what works with my playstyle.

As a side question...

- Does post mortem trigger off of ooze or only AA?  If been playing around with (what seems to be) little used skills.

Thanks.

and if the game ever gets to 15+, well the items at that point if I remember correctly offer idk 1000+ hp/armor? So each slot you use for a helm allows BOTS to crush you in battles health and mana wise...

Dude, at level 15, Putrid Flow and Acclimation put the BEAST in Unclean Beast. You have ZERO mana problems with Putrid Flow and BotS. ZERO.

... that's exact OPPOSITE of what I said

that's more in line with what I said though : )

And whatever slot the BotF beast used for mana can have something like groffling in it...