I still say go for antimatter regeneration

Eh...I don't see why not...

On the Iconus guardian, repulsion is limited by antimatter, not cooldown...the shield sharing damage ability is sometimes limited by antimatter, more usually by running out of shields...both domina's abilities are channeling, so cooldown time isn't a big deal for them...the illuminators' deceptive illusion does have a fairly long cooldown, but it's really a rather weak ability...so for all these things, antimatter is more important than cooldown...

Most of the capital ship abilities are limited more by antimatter than by than cooldown...the cooldown bonus is kind of like gravy on an ability that already may be somewhat weak....the antimatter cost decrease, as I said earlier, won't even reach 25% at level 3...that's a decent bonus, but I'd much rather have energy aura...

Alone, I don't think either bonus isn't strong enough...so I combined them...

We'll figure something out, I'm not worried

I know...the thing with antimatter regeneration is that such a bonus could allow an Advent fleet to make several phase jumps, and still have lots of antimatter...that's a problem...

I've dragged Advent fleets banking on carriers, caps, and iconus guardians (all of which need lots of antimatter) through several enemy worlds before, engaged an enemy fleet, and still managed to keep a battleball up...

I distinctly remember an MP game I played with some friends...I went through a wormhole then made 3 jumps, finally engaging an enemy fleet attacking my allies HW...my ally fled (it was an AI) while the 3rd human came in with his fleet....I fought a 2v1 and was winning until I lost both Halcyons and my Rapture...despite being low on antimatter my SC were still decent and I was still able to use repulsion for a while...I escaped with my high level radiance, all my carriers, and most of my guardians...both opponents lost all their caps and huge amounts of fleet...a unique situation, but it goes to show that Advent fleets need to have at least some sort of weakness...right now its dependence on antimatter...

I really really think having an antimatter regeneration bonus would give the Advent fleet mobility that they really don't need...aside from the illuminator and early game, the Advent have the most powerful fleet even with PMs being OP...that the fleet is highly dependent on antimatter is a disadvantage I don't think the Advent should easily be able to rid themselves of...

Reducing the ability costs gives the same benefit while on defense but does not replenish a fleet that's made several phase jumps...I think this is an important distinction...

There still doesn't seem to be any good explanation of the changes to the Radiance?  I am very unenthusiastic about the 0.21 version.

With a hull regeneration ability dependent on fire taken, the ship will tank.  With the increased mitigation and range and shorter cooldown the ship will become yet a further Advent ship that is deadly to TEC as part of a battleball, and that Vasari will have to attack with phase missiles.  This is neither balanced nor needed.  The concept is just wrong, and probably unplayable.

Also, the current 1.19 ability has a limited range and a reasonable target cap of 8/16/32.  To vastly increase the target cap- to a stupid level of 512- for no apparent reason, then claim that the ability is too strong with hull regeneration, just seems incomprehensible.  It would be practical without these extra changes.  The Radiance will hardly be invincible if the ability can only affect part of a fleet, and has a lengthy cooldown.

I am still concerned that there isn't an organised testing schedule for this mod.  There are experienced players who want changes to multiplayer and who will help given proper encouragement.  Its very positive when we can meet and play and discuss the mod, rather than have to deal with the often poor notions of players who have never been online.   

Animosity is expected to have two components...one, draw fire from your other ships and two, tank...

The more powerful the tanking ability is, the less capable the radiance must be in drawing away enemy fire...the better the radiance draws enemy fire, the less powerful its tanking must be...

You are comparing these benefits with the previous tanking component which requires different limitations...

If we use hull regen on damage taken, this ship is going to be near to invincible while the ability is active...therefore, a longer cooldown and a shorter range will be needed...

If we use shield mitigation, this ship will not be as good at tanking...and therefore, the cooldown will need to be shorter and the range longer so this ship becomes better at serving some purpose (in this case, drawing enemy fire away from other ships)...

The current cooldown and range reflect shield mitigation being weaker than hull regen...you cannot use the same limitations as were used when this ability gave hull regen...

I completely agree with you that if hull point regen is used then the cooldown needs to be longer (60s was a good number given the duration of 20s)...likewise, if the ship is this powerful then obviously the range will not need to be very large (original values would be fine)...if hull regen is used it will always be accompanied by a shorter range and a long cooldown...

However, shield mitigation isn't as powerful...therefore, the ratio of duration to cooldown needed to reflect that change...likewise, the weaker the tanking component of this ability is the more powerful the primary effect of animosity needs to be...the lvl 3 range of 5000 isn't enough to affect LRFs...even if you drive your Radiance into the enemy fleet, a lot of ships will be unaffected because they will be out of range...take into account that shield mitigation no longer makes this ship invincible for awhile, and running into the enemy fleet will still be suicide...

The problem with hull regen isn't so much the concept...the problem with hull regen is how difficult it will be to balance...let's say we found a magic number that prevents the ship from taking hull damage no matter what...how are we going to make higher levels of this ability better? 

Increase the duration?  Then the cooldown has to be increased as well, making this ability even less frequent (and therefore the radiance more vulnerable)...we could decrease the antimatter cost, but with energy absorption (and a long cooldown) that would just be silly...we could increase the range, but that is a marginal bonus not worth an extra ability point...the only real measure that could increase per level would be the actual hull regen value...if finding one good value is difficult, three different values is going to be even harder...

I am strongly against having a max number of targets...the whole point of this ability is to draw fire from your other ships...I get the feeling that you want to turn this into a tanking ability, but that is not its purpose...yes, we want this ability to increase the Radiance's resiliency, but that is not the main point of this ability...add a max target limit, and you might as well just make this solely a tanking ability...

Of all the advent capital ships, which ones would you take out first?  The Halcyon and Rapture both have very powerful AoE abilities...the Progenitor has two very powerful abilities that can be extremely powerful if used properly...reverie on the revelation can be an absolute pain and often can cost you a capital ship if you ever have to retreat...vengeance on the rapture can be very painful if you are trying to take down a starbase or specific capital ship...the only good reason to kill a radiance is if you cannot afford to have detonate antimatter prevent you from using a key ability...if your enemy is FFing on your radiance or Kol, its because either A) its your only capital ship or psychologically they have a burning desire to kill caps even when its really not worth (and don't we all like popping caps?)...

Point being, killing a Radiance is not a high level priority...animosity can take fire off your halcyon or progenitor or starbase or whatever and buy you extra time to escape/heal/pray/surrender or do whatever it is you need to do...that ability right there is extremely powerful, but it requires no limitation on max targets, a decent range, and a decent frequency...

I disagree...the shield mitigation makes the ship beatable, it can be killed, and that is important...hull regen makes the ship pretty much invincible...two radiances on opposite sides of an enemy fleet could stay alive virtually for ever, having all the enemy ships turning in circles while healing the radiance everytime they shoot it...limit the number of max targets, and this ability is now just another tanking ability with no other purpose...increase the cooldown, and you made Animosity weak unless it is paired with another radiance...

I don't know what to tell you...only 4 people have played this mod with me online...a few others have seemed to indicate they've done some testing/experimenting on their own in singleplayer...I will play online when I can (which will be mostly on weekends) but I don't have to be there every time this game is tested...I know you've tested this before online and I appreciate that...even if I'm not there to watch this mod be tested in an MP game, that doesn't mean I won't give credence to suggestions/criticisms/conclusions posted on here...

 

I dont understand the changes to clairvoiance on a conceptual level... increase in bombing damage? erm.. decrease in am usage and cooldown? huh?, how about this...

 

In addition to seeing the target planet, it also grants a "phase jump detection active" buff to the planet its looking at.(the same thing overseers use... you know, that technology that no one ever ever ever researchs?)

THis way, not only can you see the planet, but you also know if say, a giant enemy fleet is warping to (or maybe, away as well?) that planet.  Perhaps give lv2 of the ability a passive "phase jump detection active" buff to the revelation itself, so that It can be sitting in an enemy grav well and know ahead of time that a giant armada is about to warp in to inturrupt its planet bombing... and it can give itself more time to run away.

if its possible... (no idea...) perhaps make lv 3 be able to do an AoE reveal... visibility on one planet... and every planet with a warp lane to it... though, i might even call this op... and i kinda doupt its possible.

(oh, and... we (as in, every one paying attention to this thread) need some way to say "hey! i want to test now! (or,in 2 hours, or tomorrow at 5forum time or whatever..)

I get wanting Advent to have a better sieging option. Personally I would be for dropping clairvoyance all together and adding a passive abiltiy that synergizes with other ships currently bombarding near the Revelation (i.e. x% per level in either cooldown or damage or both to any ships near the Revelation). This would fit with the other ships like the Halcyon and Rapture that buff different parts of the Advent fleet. Combined with the Bombardment research this would make a nice improvement to Advents bombarding capabilities.

Edit - Strike that reverse it Mixed the Rapture and Revelation names unintentially (fixed now).

That's for guidance (which already decrease ability cooldown)...so I'd say its conceptually fine...

If you're really looking for a conceptual explanation...this ship can reveal a whole planet several AUs away...I think its fair to say it probably can see what are good places to bomb that might evade conventional sensors...

Honestly....yeah, you're right, it doesn't make perfect sense...but neither does a giant eye hovering over your planet...

Its not perfect, I know that...but this ship is a siege ship and its rather lacking in that capacity...the other two siege ships (aside from having siege abilities) also are very good at dealing out lots of damage...again, the revelation is lacking in this area...other than reverie this ship is pretty much worthless in team-based MP games...clairvoyance might have its uses in a 1v1, but this ship right now is a liability...I'm hoping this change will fix that...

We do have this forum for that (specifically, this thread)...there are other ways to contact people, but other than cell phones all those ways involve the internet...if you can check your e-mail, you can check this thread too (well, unless forums go boom)...

If you have any suggestions I am open to them...

For me personally, I will available most times on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday...if someone has a specific time in mind on one of those days, I can most likely make sure I'll be available then...if people are getting together on ICO during the week and I know about the times, I may be able to join as well, but no guarantees...

Could be done with guidance...

That would be fine too. I just think this ship would benefit from a passive cooldown for bombardment that synergizes with nearby ships.

The only issue with that is...how do you make clairvoyance more powerful?

Pbhead's idea is not bad but I still don't think it would be enough (don't know if it would be possible either)...the reason why I like bombardment tied to clairvoyance is that its different from any other siege option...you can target a planet, give your ships a bonus to bombarding it, yet the revelation doesn't actually have to be there...that is a unique advantage that I like...I don't think it will be OP, but it will be powerful...you can take out a marza or vulkoras, or you can damage it enough to force it to flee...but this ability gets around that...less power but also much easier to use...

As an update...

The next release of this mod will be bringing back the hull regen on animosity...I'm working on what values to use right now...2 still allows damage...2.5 heals the ship when attacked by things like flak or LFs, but HCs will net damage on it...3 can keep things fairly steady, with some healing when attacked by LFs/Flak/Bombers...HCs and LRFs keep things fairly even, so I'm going to work with 3...

An idea I'm testing right now is giving energy absorption shield mitigation instead of an armor bonus...current values I'm using are 6%/9%/12%...antimatter converted from damage is back to original values.....

Fair warning. If you bump up the Sheild Migiation to high you will have unkillable ship. I do not suggest increasing it much if at all. ~85% or higher you can get ships that do not die! We learned this in DS. A Radiance in culture with the Advent tech bonuses already comes close to the threshold of max migitation you can have and still be killable. Add in your suggested values and you will see it become unkillable.

 

Im not understanding why the push to make the Radiance such a tanker in any form. IMHO, just b/c its the Advent BS doesnt mean you should try and put it up against other races BS. Personally TEC should have the biggest tank, due to the fact they need something since many dont synergy as well as the other races. Vasari should be next, then followed by the Advent.

 

I know your trying to find a way to not make Animosity a suicide like ability but, do keep in mind that you gotta put that ability in context with other Caps that will be supporting it. As it has always been the Advent rely on more than one Cap.

 

A accuracy debuff will give you that decreased DPS your looking for. This will have the same affect on both TEC and Vasari, than your hull regen. Since Vasari PM when they skip the shields do not get the migitation. Your basically screwing the TEC. Where as if you do a accuracy Debuff it will affect both races the same. Heck have you though about adding a 5% PM block to the ability also?

Your logic on the Radiance is just wrong.  Have you encountered a battleball online yet?

You still have not explained why this ability isn't incredibly unbalanced in that it favours Vasari heavily over TEC.  You intend to force an entire fleet to focus fire this ship and TEC will get the full impact of the shield mitigation increase whereas the impact on Vasari will be far less.  Even TEC fighters will have to target the Radiance!  If there are two Radiances the ability will be on constantly! 

The shield mitigation is more powerful than the health regeneration.. at best, the health regeneration option would leave the Radiance at the end of Animosity with full health but no shields.   The 1.19 limited range means that Advent could not simply use Animosity followed by Repulse.  The current target cap of 8/16/32 is fine.  Forcing entire fleets to target ships is an ultimate ability, also making it affect ships that move into the target area later is not necessary. 

Animosity should not affect strikecraft targeting, especially over a large area.  Does the current version end if the Radiance leaves the grav well?

If you find a magic number that means no damage, you want the highest level at about that level, possibly just below, with level one and two worse.  With a proper target cap the ability will then draw some fire away from a target and add AM to the Radiance.  Thats all its supposed to do.  Its not an ultimate ability.

I don't have to test the 0.21 version to know that whatever the fixes to Scramble Bombers, this is worse.  It is just a huge battleball buff.

 

 

The thing with clairvoyance is, it's an ability to be used on a planet where you have no visibility, rather than where your forces are. 

Suppose it reduced credit/resource/build rates on the planet it reveals, like Sova's embargo, but not as powerful since it can be used from a distance (and it doesn't steal what's lost).  Something that would be equivalent to say a 5/10/15 percentage point reduction in allegiance (if I understand allegiance correctly, and obviously, the numbers are just thrown out).  I would be worried about it affecting allegiance directly because of how slowly culture takes to spread back and you wouldn't want the Revelation to overthrow border worlds with low allegiance while sitting behind 7 starbases (unless you're advent, but you're too biased here;).

 

While this wouldn't be a siege ability per se, it would be an anti-planet weapon and operate somewhat like the Culture Club's Deliverance Engine.  If you wanted to give the Revelation more synergistic siege punch, Guidance could buff the Purge's weapons to some degree.

 

 

p.s. i like the TEC changes made so far.

No, I disagree...a target cap of 32 will cover the entire enemy fleet early game...yet late game, it will hardly cover anything, entirely defeating the point of this ability...the biggest threats to capital ships are LRFs and Bombers...

If you set a target cap and severely limit the range, you will never be able to draw enough LRF fire during the mid to late game...if you don't let this ability affect SC, then what's the point of animosity at all?  Bombers alone can take out capital ships before two fleets even engage each other...if you can't draw fire from bombers then animosity will not have any use after the initial expansion phase...

Yes, shield mitigation will favor Vasari...and adaptive forcefield favors TEC and iconus guardians favor Vasari and magnetize favors Advent and flak burst favors Vasari...if I didn't know better I'd just say that's part of the game...now, there are points where an ability may favor a faction too much, and right now a shield mitigation bonus on animosity would definitely cross that line...but hull regen is being a pain to balance so I'm trying something new...no its not perfect, but it's an effort...I might also note that PMs will probably be changed in the future so this affect will be dampened...

I would note that hull regen also favors Vasari...the hull increase is constant no matter what causes the damage, but PM's do more damage so the net change will favor Vasari PMs more than the other two factions' arsenals...where Advent illuminators will cause the hull to regenerate, Vasari Kanraks could still do significant damage...again, this is why I'm looking for something other than hull regen because it will never be truly balanced...

At first I was for this...but honestly I don't see the point anymore...if this is our goal, then we should just give animosity damage reduction....sure, it will take effect even if shields are up but it also can be precisely balanced...hull regen simply cannot...no matter what values we pick, there will be situations that net hull repair and situations that net damage...conceptually it's a good idea but in practice it is too imprecise to implement...

Again, might as well just add damage reduction...it would then also help against abilities...nevertheless, I do like your idea because it's different (as in, its not adaptive forcefield with higher numbers) and it would make sure no faction is favored...but, so does damage reduction

I agree...Animosity needs uniqueness, not just tanking power...

I know, which is why I tried them on animosity...obviously it's imperfect....

All abilities end as soon as you jump into phase space...

 

 

 

 

 

I agree...but, on the other hand, not having to risk your cap ship yet still sieging a planet is also very useful...with things like PJIs and starbases, I can see situations where some purge vessels + defense vessels are worth risking to bomb a planet but putting a capital ship in there is not...

Nevertheless, on principal I agree with you, but implementing it and balancing it are different stories...

Let's just follow this line of thought though because it is rather popular and an antimatter cost/cooldown AoE could become overpowered...

Let's say Guidance is passive, AoE, and reduces bombing cooldowns on nearby ships...

And let's say Clairvoyance spreads culture/decreases allegiance/does something (TEC have Embargo, Vasari have subversion, Advent have nothing)...

It is something worth considering...the only issue is that I think you'll find whatever bonus you give just won't be worth justifying a revelation...it can't be as powerful as embargo or subversion since you can affect so many planets so quickly...likewise if you increase the cooldown to counter this, you risk making the ability weaker since it will be harder to gather intel when you need it...I'm not certain on which way to go yet...

That's a good point.   The ability does last a while as well, i think, so using it as preparation for a normal assault for both the buff and the intel could work (I always send scouts to planets I'm about to attack to find out about defenses).  

v0.30 has now been released...don't forget to re-download if you are testing this!

The change log is listed below...please note that all changes are in reference to the current version of the game, not the last version of this mod...

Official Change Log of Project Equilibrium

v0.30

Capital Ship Changes

-Kol

--Adaptive Forcefield
---Changed to passive ability

--Flak Burst
---Range increased from 2400/3000/3600 to 3000/3600/4200
---Cooldown decreased from 12/10/8 to 10/9/8
---Damage increased from 30/45/60 to 40/50/60

--Gauss Rail Gun
---Antimatter cost decreased from 75 to 40
---Damage increased from 325/650/975 to 600/900/1200
---Now decreases target's weapon cooldown by 33%
---Duration increased from 10s to 10/15/20

--Finest Hour
---Antimatter regeneration decreased from 5 per second to 3 per second
---Hull regeneration increased from 10 per second to 15 per second

-Radiance

--Animosity
---New buff is applied to friendly units in range that forces attackers to repick targets
---Frequency of buffs is now once every 4s
---Now affects ships entering the area of effect after the ability has been cast
---Now affects strikecraft
---Max number of targets increased from 8/16/32 to infinite
---Now gives a damage reduction of 10000%
---Now adds .5/1/1.5 hull points each time damage is taken
---Cooldown increased from 35s to 60s

--Cleansing Brilliance
---Duration decreased from 8s to 6s
---Damage per second increased from 250 to 500
---Destroying target no longer ends ability

-Sova

--Missile Batteries
---Cooldown decreased from 35s to 35/30/25

--Heavy Strikecraft
---Physical damage bonus increased from 12%/24%/36% to 15%/30%/45%
---Armor bonus increased from 2/3.5/5 to 2/4/6

-Skirantra

--Scramble Bombers
---Duration decreased from 120s to 60s
---Antimatter cost changed from 50 to 45/50/55
---Cooldown time decreased from 35s to 24s

-Jarrasul

--Colonize
---Planet now temporarily has an extra 1/2/3 constructors
---No longer provides a structure build rate bonus
---Duration increased from 240/480/720 to 720s

-Dunov

--EMP
---Range increased from 4500m to 4500/5000/5500
---Antimatter cost changed from 100/90/80 to 80/90/100
---Cooldown decreased from 50/45/40 to 30/25/20

--Magnetize
---Antimatter cost increased from 80 to 80/85/90
---Max number of targets increased from 8/12/16 to 1000000 (essentially infinite)
---Max number of strikecraft that can be destroyed increased from 8/12/16 to 16/24/32

--Shield Restore
---May now cast ability on self
---Now restores 50 shields per second for 5s in addition to current buff

-Rapture

--Domination
---Cooldown deacreased from 60s to 45s

--Vertigo
---Range of casting ability increased from 4500m to 6000m (range of buff unchanged)
---Antimatter cost decreased from 70 to 50/55/60

--Vengeance
---Antimatter cost decreased from 70 to 50/55/60
---Cooldown changed from 30/35/45 to 30/35/40
---Duration increased from 20/30/40 to 30/35/40

-Antorak

--Distort Gravity
---Antimatter cost decreased from 65 to 40
---Cooldown decreased from 45s to 30s
---Ranged increased from 5000m to 8000m

--Subversion
---Ability no longer requires user to target planet
---Ability no longer stacks
---Antimatter cost decreased from 100 to 50
---Cooldown increased from 75s to 120s
---Structure and ship build time penalty increased from 50%/100%/150% to 100%/200%/300%
---Duration increased from 300/450/600 to 360/480/600

-Marza

--Incendiary Shells
---Fixed bug where debuff was cancelled by successive shots
---Now temporarily decreases target's armor by .5/1/1.5

--Missile Barrage
---Range decreased from 10000m to 8000m

-Revelation

--Provoke Hysteria
---Cooldown decreased from 180s to 120s
---Percent of planet population killed per second increased from .75% to 1%

--Guidance
---Is now a passive ability
---Range is 8000m
---Reduces antimatter cost and ability cooldown for all friendly forces by 10%/20%/30%

--Clairvoyance
---Duration increased from 90/120/150 to 90/180/270
---Now reduces bombing cooldown by 10%/20%/30% for all friendly units at the targeted planet
---Buff will still affect ships entering gravity well after ability has been activated

-Vulkoras

--Phase Missile Swarm
---Range increased from 5000 to 6000/7000/8000
---Max number of targets increased from 3/5/7 to 24
---Antimatter cost changed from 90 to 80/90/100

--Assault Specialization
---Bonus damage against structures increased from 60/120/180 to 120/240/360

Significant changes to v0.30 include:

Clairvoyance increases the siege cooldown of all friendly ships at targeted planet...Revelation does not have to be present and any ship entering the gravity well after the ability has been cast will be affected...this should give this ship the siege capabilities it finally needs....

Guidance is now a passive AoE ability...it gives all friendly ships a 10%/20%/30% antimatter cost reduction and ability cooldown...please keep in mind that given how the game mechanics work this will actually result in a 9%/17%/23% reduction in antimatter cost (same reason why the 300% reduction on flux field actually only reduces the cost by 75%)...the range on this is 8000m, the same as energy aura and concentration aura...hopefully this ability will be useful but not too powerful...

Animosity...ability has a cooldown of 60s...this means it can be activated only one third of the time....while the ability is activated the ship will have 10000% damage reduction (which essentially is like a damage multiplier of 1/101)...the purpose of this is to prevent more or less any damage...then .5/1/1.5 hull points will be restored everytime the ship takes damage (invulnerability I think would prevent this from happening)...basically, the Radiance can repair some hull points during this period, but it will be wide open to attack for 40s...ability should scale rather well (hopefully) since more ships do more damage in 40s but also will heal the hull more...

There is still a potential problem with multiple radiances but I feel we need to get something that works well on one radiance before we consume ourselves with multi-radiance situations...more balancing will probably be needed but I hope this will be a good start...

As a note, energy absorption is currently not changed in this mod...with Animosity, I think its current stats are just fine...

Missile barrage...range was decreased slightly...given how vulnerable the marza is while it uses this ability and the long cooldown, I'm very wary on reducing the damage it does...

Subversion...acts like embargo in that a simple click does the trick...no need to target the planet...this ability also does not stack...a low level marauder should be able to phase jump to any enemy world, use subversion, use distort gravity to jump to another enemy world, and use both abilities a second time without a long delay waiting for antimatter...

Shield Restore...provides 50 shields per second for 5s...this will amount to the same shield bonus given in previous versions of this mod (total of 500/750/1000) but will make this ability more useful on frigates...

Not the Advent fleet, it'd be one unit that gets the benefit from Guidance. Keep in mind that the Revelation must spend antimatter to create antimatter, so this is hardly a limitless fountain.  As well, the whole point of these abilities is to grant unique bonuses.  This strength is the selling point of the ability.  I still think this is the way to go.

Now, this would be a coup-de-grace for the already beleagured antimatter regenerator structure, but that thing was going to need some serious work anyways (as does TEC's shield generator...)



I agree with DesConnor that Animosity right now has some serious workability and conceptual issues.  I'd agree that the shield mitigation approach has just made the Radiance more vulnerable to phase missiles, and something else will need to be tried.  That said, I totally agree with Seleuceia that the ability needs a multi-faceted approach.





As mitigation approaches 100%, time to live (TTL) approaches infinity.  This means every additional % of mitigation is more valuable.

Just look at this table:
Mitigation    TTL
50%        +100%
66%        +200%
75%        +300%
80%        +400%
83%        +500%
90%        +900%
91%        +1011%

Let me phrase this ina  way that explains just how shocking this is.  The difference between 90% mitigation and 91% mitigation is GREATER than the difference between 0% mitigation and 50% mitigation.

I totally agree with UE_Carbon here, we can't have too much mitigation stacking going on.  Advent is already pretty much at the limit (if not beyond it in the vs TEC matchup) for mitigation stacking, more is over the top.  If we're going to do any mitigation buffs, they have to be strictly non-stackable.

i guess i can live with the siege cooldwon of friendly ships... and i was preety ok with that, its the guidance that totally threw me off, and i am sorry for getting that confused. Also, the realization that the bombardment damage increase would be where clairvoyance was cast, and not where the revelation is (was slightly confused about that)...

The damage reduction on the radiance is different and intresting... (and will get desconnor to stop complaining)... but I am not sure why the hull point regen is needed as well...  (you have effectively given the radiance 99.xx shield mitigation... where the xx is the displayed shield mitigation) 

or really... if you look over the 60 second time period... you have reduced the total damage taken (if everything in the fleet was firing at it anyway) to 66% of its origional value... you might as well give the radiance a 50% damage reduction  (whcih, the way the game stacks... if i did my math right, should reduce damage to 66% of origional value) for 60 seconds (focus fire required for only 20 seconds... I am preety sure it is possible to have 2 different effects expire at different times)... and then we lose the issues when we have multiple radiances.

of course... if the radiance is getting an 50% damage reduction... we must then again take a look at adaptive force field... which is 15/25/35% damage reduction...

do you understand what i am saying? kinda?

ermm, basicly, the change log should look like this:

--Animosity
---New buff is applied to friendly units in range that forces attackers to repick targets (for 20 seconds)
---Frequency of buffs is now once every 4s
---Now affects ships entering the area of effect after the ability has been cast
---Now affects strikecraft
---Max number of targets increased from 8/16/32 to infinite (for 20 seconds)
---Now gives a damage reduction of 50%(for 60 seconds)

---Cooldown increased from 35s to 60s

erm... well, now we have no increase per level...

but the damage reduction idea works alot better.... we dont have shield bypass issues with phase missles... we dont have healing when damage is taken with the hull regen, and we dont have rediculous shield mitigations with end game techs.

if you have an ability that can be abused, it will be abused... look at scramble bombers... we see people with 3+ skirantras running around all the time... i promise you, that those same people would switch back to advent (they were the illum spammers before), and build 3 radiances... and just stagger animocity while bombarding your homeworld... and there would be almost nothing you could do about it. (mind you... you could build 3 vulks/marzas and bomb his homeworld back... but, come on... )

Okay I think I understand where you are going with this...so, you'd put it on say, a Halcyon and use Telekinetic push more or a progenitor and use malice/shield regen more?  This would be better than the original ability, but I still think it would be rather weak...if you have only two or three caps, this ability is essentially worthless as soon as you lose your other caps...

I don't know about this...part of me thinks this would be convenient in very specific situations...but part of me thinks that nerfing LRFs against caps will inherently make LFs (transfer antimatter) more feasible and the antimatter structure is likely to be changed as well...to be honest, I don't know if the concept of antimatter regen/antimatter cost/ability cooldown applied to just one ship per use will every be a solid enough ability...

Nevertheless it is still something I'm going to continue to consider, because the original ability is modeled the same way (active, targets one ship)...

I tried shield mitigation bonuses on energy absorption to see how it would help with animosity (energy absorption's passive so it made it easier to test)...excluding PMs even a bonus of 6% became ridiculously powerful when combined with other benefits..so, shield mitigation bonuses (at least for Advent) is not going to be happening...

Yes but it has just been changed...I think this version is at least workable and has potential...please please please at least try it before you start slamming on it...

First off, yes you did your math right and yes you can have buffs expire at different times...

Now, you have a good point...if all ships are shooting at the radiance anyway it should more or less be the same...the key difference is that you can only guarantee them shooting at the radiance for the first 20s...after that, they could be shooting at anything...so, the strength in this ability is temporary invulnerability + hull repair for one third the time, and absolute vulnerability 2/3 of the time...

With energy absorption this ability can and will be spammed continuously, so giving it a 50% damage reduction will reduce one third of the damage all the time (which is more than adaptive forcefield, and I don't think that should be the case)...

That it heals hull when damage is taken is sort of the point of this ability...now, the current increments are .5/1/1.5...these may have to be lowered (1.5 is very strong, but hell we need something to test) but it is different from a straight up 5 hull/s because it can't regenerate hull unless you're in combat...and, this model scales regardless of fleet size...everything else though is definitely part of our goals...and maybe we will just take away the hull regen and make the ship invulnerable...

The reason why I choose this model over just a simple hull regen on damage taken is that it is much more predictable...the previous model oscillated between healing and still taking damage depending on what was shooting at you...this model adds a fixed amount of HP regardless of what shoots you...

Now, the hull regen may need to be taken away, and this ability given a very high damage reduction (like 300% or reduce damage to 1/4) so that multiple radiances can still be killed...

The issue is making this ability work for one radiance while not being OP for multiple radiances...since hull regen has been on the table, I at least wanted to get one good model with hull regen so we can say once and for all whether hull regen is a good or bad idea...the inconsistency of the previous model made it impossible to test...

If hull regen looks to be a really bad idea, then damage reduction is probably the next step...UE_Carbon gave the idea of reducing accuracy of affected ships...we had previous ideas of debuffing the affected ships weapon cooldown...those may very well be our best option...I'm just not yet sure...

Well said...yes this is going to be a challenge to get to work...but, we have a lot of ideas to work with and a model that at least can be tested...so, there is yet hope!

I might add that LRFs currently have a range greater than Animosity's range even at lvl 3 (5000m)...granted, the radiance could move around and get in range of those ships, but I think the range right now is what prevents the taunt part of this ability from being ridiculous...

 

 

I think...I hope...that these small changes will help limit the potential ridiculousness of multiple Radiances...please be sure to update!

 

Official Change Log of Project Equilibrium

v0.31

Capital Ship Changes

-Radiance

--Animosity
---Ships that leave area of affect will stop force attacking
---Now is a channeling ability
---Now is interruptable