OK, Paxx...
XP only requires 2 key-strokes to type, and 2000 requires 4.....

It really is just a matter of point of view.............

I'm running 98 because it was on the HD itself when I installed it.

"OK, somebody please give me one single advantage XP has over 2000."

Compatability (games, apps, hardware) bigtime over NT/2000

Win2k never gave me any problems, haven't had the need to reformat ever since I installed it in late 1999. Unless something comes out that I'll absolutely want to use and it won't run on win2k, then maybe I'll upgrade to XP, otherwise, I see no reason whatsoever.

Hmmm, I've not had much problem in the way of hardware/app compatibility under W2k...and any of the newer games I've tried have run well too.

Considering I spend about 75% of my time on OS X now I think I'll leave my other machines on W2k and wait to see what arrives after XP.

Hum, from what I read about the Win9x emulator that will ship with XP, it still will not be compatible with everything. So I would still need a dual boot anyway, like I do now to play the few games that won't work un 2k (actually, only my Tomb Raider games don't work, and it's the only reason I keep the dual boot - everything else works fine).
So, nope. It's not a reason enough to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade. Anything else?

XP is really just cosmetic "enhancements" of 2k along with all the Hailstorm crap where you basically give all your personal information (including credit card number) to Microsoft so you can retrieve it from other device (and so other people can also retrieve it from anywhere!!!!) Yeah right.

If XP is faster than 2000 I'll change my nick to Kermit the Frog.

One other improvement (that is not an improvement for home users) is the ability to logout and have all your programs still running. Then have someone else log in whilest those same programs are still running for the first user. This feature is great for me at work.!

I've been running build 2481 for about three weeks now and haven't had to reboot once. (That's on a brand new Dell Inspiron 4000) I love it. I did have a little bit of trouble with WindowBlinds but then I realized it was my stupidity that was prohibiting the operation. (Although I don't think I've figured out how to exclude programs yet)
I just downloaded RC1 from conxion this morning and haven't had a chance to burn it out yet and install it but will be doing so this weekend.

Well I have been running 2495 of XP Pro, and seems stable.

I haven't tested the intigrated Cd burning that windows XP has though, But yes it has a great amount of changes to the way windows Looks. [No] not on about Luna before anyone thinks..


The way the Control Panel has been changed looks pretty nice, and you still have access to the old style Control Panel. Or use the Categorised View.

The changes also can be seen in the way you view items in windows Explorer too, either as tiled or iconised or thub nail views on items in explorer.

while this is a superfical improvment, the way you now handle files seems more friendlier too.? Viewing graphics files as many of us do, is more easier too, as the Picture prieview is already in Windows Me and 2000, you may think well how much better can it be? but I find the new layout for viewing these files more better than before.

The start Menu I like the idea of putting recently used programs on the start menu along with My computer etc, is a neat idea.

As for speed, nope I dont think XP is too hot on this, but this also depends on what performance options you chose for your PC.

You will find there are different performance levels XP can work at. You can put more performance into the system Cache or to Execute programs faster. etc.

Other nice features I find is the Log off part of it..yes it is pretty cool logging off and still having your session still 'Active' while some one else uses the PC. most other things seem to be visual improvements such as antialising. Better organised Short cut links, and a few other things.

All I can say is if your used to Win2000, and like it, then stay with it ! But if your like a lot of people, who like to try new things out then Try it out.

Well I like new things, I'm a gadget freak. But not when there is more bad than good.

I haven't tried XP but I've tried all the XP Desktop X themes out there, and if the start menu works the same way in XP as in those themes, I really don't like it. Pretty much, I don't like any of the cosmetic "enhancements" XP has. If I was stuck with XP I would disable all those HTML Start menus/Folder views crap.
If it's the only "good" thing XP has, then no thank you.
As for stability, I can't see XP being more stable than 2000, since 2000 is rock solid.

Finally, the fact that you can log off and still keep your applications opened and running, I admit that is nice. Maybe some day Windows will catch on to Linux. Less cosmetics, and more real OS enhancements such as those and we might see a decent Microsoft server OS in a few years. But please, cut it with those ridiculous performance-hog eye candies.
I have software such as Windowblinds if I want nice looking windows.

a- hem Paxx,

You can ALSO change the appearance of Windows XP to the normal classic view of Windows 9x. You dont HAVE TO use the new Start Menu at ALL !! choose the Windows classic theme, and you will see everything as it is in Windows 9x or win2k. including the old style start Menu too.

Yes, I know. That's why I said I would turn all that crap off if I was forced to use it.
But in the end, if I turn everything off, why should I upgrade?

Anyway, Microsoft itself said that XP is not intended for current Win2000 users, but for current Win9x users. Windows 2000 users are expected to keep Windows 2000. No reason to upgrade, other than weird personal satisfaction of knowing you have upgraded.

..That depend on which side of the fence you sit on paxx..

If you happen to be a business then I believe Microsoft are forcing businesses to upgrade, Fortunately for Home users we dont have to do that Well As I said before if your happy with what you have then there is no need to change it

But the thing is, people have the wrong idea thinking that the Pro version of XP is not any different from Windows 2000. It does have some improved features over Windows 2000. But it depends on how much you need the new OS I guess, if win2k does everything you need already, then stay with it

just resurecting this thread for SpaceGhost's benefit.

LONG LIVE TO W2K!!!!

Some advantages over W2K:

System Restore.

User Swapping.

Built-in CD burning using the Explorer interface.

Windows Medial Player 8.

Much, much better Explorer (though the public IE6 may change that).

Better Start menu (IMO).

Luna. Even if you don't like it, they've expanded the framework for skinning programs such as WindowBlinds.

Many cool graphics things other than Luna, such as 32-bit icons and drop shadows on icon labels.

Much better Help system that updates in real time, and even ties in with the Microsoft Knowledgebase.

Remote Desktop.

Files and Settings transfer wizard.

Built-in ZIP.

Built-in compatibility modes for older OS.

Faster boots.

That's just off the top of my head.

Well, I got RC1 about a week ago and put it straight over 2K Pro. I will be upgrading if my crack doesn't work that long .....

Anyway, to be honest I think XP is to 2k as ME is to 98. ie, not that much difference on the surface but when you go back you miss all those little extra's they put in. One of the major things for me is the integrated CD burning, works like a dream and is a god send when you are forever downloading and saving it to CD to free up HD space. It's slightly sluggish compared to 2K, but it's RC not final and if you get compatibility at the sacrifice of a tiny amount of speed that's fine by me. Explorer is IMMENSELY better now, the customisation of file views is amazing compared to anything previous. I have had no probs with any games, or my music apps like Acid and FruityLoops...... The one thing I'd be wary of at the moment is using anykind of tweaking utility as I've buggered it up using 98 tweakers I agree with all points made by Tarkus as well plus the integration of WindowBlinds is kick ass !!!!!!

Finally I would like to point out that the home version is what most people will be buying and compared to 95/98/ME that most 'ordinary' home users are used to this WILL be a major upgrade. As most of us here could be called power users I think we forget that the average Joe will find it a hugely useful upgrade from a stability viewpoint alone ! And for these average Joe's I don't think WPA will be a major headache because most of them don't upgrade and just keep their PC's for 5 years or more b4 thinking about just buying a newer one.......

Just my thoughts

SickPuppy: Tweak UI and Xteq's X-Setup both work fine in WXP. You may one to create a Restore point first, though, just to be safe.

Good point about most people going from W98 to WXP. That's a major upgrade, even without the Pro extras.

I plan to upgrade, if for no other reason then to keep my computer skills current. Right now, I have 98. Windows ME didn't have any new features that I really needed, and Microsoft announced that Windows XP was coming out a long time ago, so I never upgraded to ME.

emilyh: "I plan to upgrade, if for no other reason then to keep my computer skills current."

Well, actually, from what I've read, Microsoft wants you to forget all your computer skills with XP. Most of everything will be Wizard driven.

Tarkus:
OK, I went through your list...
- System Restore: I hope it's better than ME's because the one on ME is totally useless.
- User Swapping: yes, cool indeed. But I can't think of any reason why I'd use it...
- Built-in CD burning using the Explorer interface: Hum... Burning a CD is easy enough using EZ CD Creator. The is even the Direct CD feature that lets you use a CD as if it was just a diskette. Very cool. So no, don't need that new XP feature.
- Windows Medial Player 8: I'm sure it will be available for download.
- Much, much better Explorer (though the public IE6 may change that): as you said, IE will be available for download.
- Better Start menu (IMO): yes, indeed, in your opinion. Not mine. I really really don't like the new stat menu.
- Luna. Even if you don't like it, they've expanded the framework for skinning programs such as WindowBlinds: if I like Luna, I can get it with Windowblinds.
- Many cool graphics things other than Luna, such as 32-bit icons and drop shadows on icon labels: YES!! The first nice feature for me in the list so far... Is it worth upgrading for though?
- Much better Help system that updates in real time, and even ties in with the Microsoft Knowledgebase: Huh? How often does anyone uses Windows' help? Don't think I ever did myself...
- Remote Desktop: Already got VNC.
- Files and Settings transfer wizard: Wazzat? Like a built in FTP? If so, don't need it.
- Built-in ZIP: don't need it.
- Built-in compatibility modes for older OS: if it's really true, then it may be nice. But I am not convinced. If I had XP I'd probably keep a dual boot with Win98 just in case anyway.
Faster boots: Again, if it's significantly faster, then it's cool.

So really, in my particular case. According to that list, my reasons for upgrading would be: transparent icons, better Win9x compatibility and faster reboot. Hum... May be worth upgrading, but not worth buying. So if it comes with my next system I'll give it a shot.
Problem is, I will proabably get my next ssyteme within a month, but XP wont be released then... Oh well... I guess I'l stick to 2k.

Regarding the "... if you like Luna, you can get it with WindowBlinds..." comment. I like WindowBlinds, but there are just enough inconsistencies with it and how I'm use to working that I prefer not to run it... most of the time... Like flashing IM messages no longer flash on the taskbar when I'm running it. Little things like that are enough to keep me from running it full time.

And regarding the new Windows Help feature: I ran into an issue, and in the past I *never* use help. Since there's so little actual documentation regarding technicial issues with WinXP on the Web I decided to use Windows Help, and it worked! Twice now! So I have to say that I'm quite impressed with Help also

paxx: Not trying to talk you into upgrading, but I'll address a few of your points.

System Restore: I never used the ME version, so I can't compare. I can only say that it has already saved my butt several times, and I've heard similar reports in the beta groups. In fact, I don't think I've ever read a single negative about it, other than some people say they don't need it.

User Swapping: One good reason for using it is so that you can run normally in a secure, non-administrator account, and you can easily switch over to your administrator account when necessary. That's how I use it.

Built-in CD burning: DirectCD is buggy, and packet writing in general is not only unreliable, but is also proprietary. The built-in burning performs the same function as ECDC (TAO), but using a much more convenient interface. It doesn't eliminate the need for good burning software, but it makes for a great supplement.

Windows Media Player 8: So far MS is saying it's only going to be bundled with WXP. I'd be surprised if they moved off of that, since it's part of WXP's selling point.

Explorer: I was talking about Windows Explorer, not Internet Explorer, though I realize they're somewhat tied together. Not sure if the public IE6 will bring WE up to WXP's level.

Luna: Let's see you skin your taskbar and Start menu with WindowBlinds. Luna does. WindowBlinds will eventually, but I'm not sure if ever will on non-XP Windows. The Display Properties interface is pretty cool, too.

Help: I never used the old Help either, but I use this Help all the time. There is a wealth of knowledge there, since it ties right in to the MS Knowledgebase. Plus it helps with the learning curve.

Files & Settings Transfer Wizard: What it does is allow you to move all your settings from account to account. Means you can move to another computer or account, or even from an older OS, without losing your settings.

Nobody really needs another ZIP program, but I like the fact that it's built into Explorer. Like the CD burning, it's just a really nice supplement to a separate full featured program. I use the built-in stuff day to day because of the convenience, and use the other stuff for more sophisticated jobs.

Oh Paxx, you are a stuborn one aren't you

Yep, system restore is hugely improved and makes no performance hit at all AND the major thing now is you can delete all restore points except the latest one, recovering a large amount of disc space.

OK, the built in CD burining is way better than Direct CD. No formatting, no special eject commands, no finalizing the disc. It's virtually identical to copying to floppy or zip but takes slightly longer obviously, depending on your CD-R speed. To be able to copy straight from explorer without opening Nero is way faster for me anyways and I'm certain it'll be a big hit with most home users who find normal CD burning complicated.

MS have stated that Media Player 8 is gonna be XP only and that there won't be downloads available.... although I think that will probably change.... besides you can get RC2 for Win2K at a number of sites already.....

Explorer, I don't think IE6 is that much of an improvement, what I was talking about was Windows File Explorer, huge improvements and functionality.......

As for the start menu and Luna, I think this friendlier look is gonna be the biggest draw for gullible consumers....... 'Oh look, isn't that lovely, looks much less like work now !' is how one person I showed XP commented....

Yep, a lot of the graphical touches are nice, shadowed icon text, fading taskbar, fade to grey on shutdown etc........ again, a pull for the 'average' home user.....

The 'Help and Support Centre' really are useful at last, unlike the ME one which I could NEVER get to work even on a clean install..... PLUS you can get online assistance via proffesionals, friends etc which sounds like a good idea, ie you can get someone to connect up to your machine and go through it if you're not tech savvy.....

Files and settings transfer allows you to easily take all you settings etc to a different machine, basically you can migrate to other PC's and keep your looks, layout and work etc

Built in ZIP, haven't used it but saves having to register WinZip or one of the others....

The compatibility modes work well, I know that for a fact as I have a number of progs that i can't run without setting them to Win98 mode.....

As for the faster boots claim, this is actually the slowest Windows I have ever had for booting.....

Oh and as you obviously haven't been paying attention to the tech news sites, new PC's will be shipping with XP from mid September, maybe even earlier so you may well get it. And even if you don't most places are issuing free upgrade vouchers if you buy a new PC anytime soon.

I've been using Powerdesk Pro for years now.....enjoying the seemless built-in zip functions [and other formats including cab] and the built-in file viewer [including avi, doc and wav], and the shortcut bar access to the likes of regedit etc........craps all over exploder, so that is one reason less for me to switch to XP.

I find file management/functionality to be quite important, so with Pdesk as well as ZtreeWin....I'll stick happily with 2K...