A psychological observation (kind of)

What works out really well is turning a flag halfway but not turning it yellow.  You have to run at exactly the right time, but it can definitely be good.  1, you don't give them a yellow.  2, it literally is the same color so unless they remember that you did it or randomly mouse over it they can't notice.  3, when you go back it'll change instantly and they'll be like "wtf!!"  There are definitely times that I will forget a portal flag was turned almost halfway.. then the next time they go in, it changes and nobody can port.  I've also used this against other people.

Neutralizing flags is generally not a good idea.  You turn it yellow, which is definitely noticeable if they ever look at the minimap.  Also, when they change it back to their color, they get an xp and gold bonus for changing it.. whereas you don't get a bonus for changing it to yellow.  Getting yellow caps early game is huge for this reason.  A solid strat is to purposefully hang back out of sight and let them change it to yellow then run back in (only if you KNOW you can push them out).  With a stronger char on 2v2 you can control 2 flags by yourself as long as the person opposite you can't push you out.

Late game, you're better off just taking the flag, or turning it almost yellow so you can come back later and fully take it (mainly portals).  The only time it's really beneficial to almost yellow is when they already started porting in to a nearby tower or flag and will prevent you from taking the flag.  Ideallllly they will finish the port and chase you down rather than sitting on their own flag for a couple seconds to move the bar all the way back.

What works out really well is turning a flag halfway but not turning it yellow.  You have to run at exactly the right time, but it can definitely be good.  1, you don't give them a yellow.  2, it literally is the same color so unless they remember that you did it or randomly mouse over it they can't notice.  3, when you go back it'll change instantly and they'll be like "wtf!!"  There are definitely times that I will forget a portal flag was turned almost halfway.. then the next time they go in, it changes and nobody can port.  I've also used this against other people.

Very interesting and helpful, thank you!

You turn it yellow, which is definitely noticeable if they ever look at the minimap.

That's why I said it's only useful end-game in minimal player settings (1v1, maybe marginally 2v2). Also, it tends to work best on flag clusters that kind of merge one into the other on the mini-map. That said, I'm sure it doesn't work in super-pro games.

BTW, I have recently seen two replays involving you, Orcun, Hedgie, Thundercles, Darkliath and Nomilarac...  Something like TB-Reg-Sed mirrors. I don't think you guys make mistakes at all (though in the second game Hedgie's Sedna charged right into towers for some reason: he must have lost control of the mouse or something, it couldn't be a deliberate move), except very tiny ones that get immediately exploited by the opposing team to the fullest. That's all extremely professional and has a great educational value for newbie players like me, but a tiny question arises: isn't playing Cataract for bazillionth time a bit boring? After all, even I can already draw an algorithm of skilled game on Cataract for both sides. Demigod is not chess, obviously. And I've yet to see a Zikkurat, Brothers or Mandala game being hosted, for example (though, admittedly, there are some Leviathans, Crucibles and Prisons in the lobby from time to time).

The reason for mostly cataract games is Zik, Mandala, Brothers are freaking enormous and 3v3's on these maps would be a bit odd.

Nobody plays exile because you can exploit the main base crystal by standing on the lane next to the crystal getting perma health and mana, and most people hate the neutral crystals. I personally love this map.

Prison matches winner usually is decided in the first 5 minutes by total flag control or whoever dies first. This map just turns into a demigod gank squad with both teams running around together and trying to pick off a lone wolf (you can literally die if your not standing in or immediatly next to a teammate). I personally hate this map.

In general usually more then 3v3 lags or someone desyncs but if for whatever magical reason a 4v4 happens the map is either zik or levi traditionally.

Thanks, Zex, I guess that answers my question. Of course, sheer map size being incompatible with 3v3 settings is a totally valid point. Hell, 3v3 is a bit problematic even on Levi (not disproportionately so, since artifact flag lane is usually left deserted, but sometimes it's felt the map was designed with 4v4 as a default setting in mind, indeed).

I still really like cataract.  It doesn't get boring for me because every match is a different match (unless ppl consistently don't change things up and do the same combo 3 games in a row, in which I get bored of it very fast).  You have to rethink of which lane to go to, what build to do, what items to get in what order, and then work on exploiting tiny mistakes

You have to rethink of which lane to go to, what build to do, what items to get in what order, and then work on exploiting tiny mistakes

Plus, ultra-pro matches always are much more interesting to play than to watch (they look long, boring and way too safe to scrubs). I was a tourney level player in a very different kind of game until a year ago or so (though not that different, when I think about it... it was similar in that it had a relatively small, but - or maybe therefore - very dedicated, enthusiastic and serious community), so I can relate somewhat.

some of them are fun to watch  

For those who want to get better by analyzing and learning - yes, sure. But people who'd rather see some action (action understood as a lot of kills going on) will be disappointed. It's exactly the same in fighting games: usually scrubs/casual players aren't too excited to see both characters maneuvering for 20 seconds, then checking/poking and blocking 99% of each other's pokes for the remaining 40 seconds. However, any pro can clearly see it's actually a pretty tense match requiring a lot of skill, forethought and concentration.

nah i mean.. i agree most are boring to watch, but there are certainly some fun to watch games with high kills and crazy items.

nah - not even interesting to play.  Its a big stalling match against top players. You wait until you have something strong to go with, then snatch at any opportunity that comes along.  Or you focus on people acting like goofs.  Most tier 1 matches can be summarized by about 2-4 combats.  The rest of the game is just hanging out and positioning for flags.

nah - not even interesting to play.  Its a big stalling match against top players. You wait until you have something strong to go with, then snatch at any opportunity that comes along.  Or you focus on people acting like goofs.  Most tier 1 matches can be summarized by about 2-4 combats.  The rest of the game is just hanging out and positioning for flags.

Pro matches (not only DG pro matches, mind you) are always very defensive by nature. Resorting to fighting game terminology: a good turtle always wins a match against an equally skilled pitbull. Personally, I find turtling strategy interesting enough, but it can get tiresome, especially when it's not a fast-paced fighting game, but a RTS/RPG hybrid requiring full concentration for 60+ minutes. Of course, small community also means a bit less tier 1 players (yes, a bit less, since tier 1 players tend to be serious enthusiasts that play the game for months and years), and that might prove to be an additional turn-off.

say wut

say wut

Insightful.

I believe he was pointing out that the majority of players who are left are all "tier 1". 

pfft clearing saying "say wut" because he doesn't turtle for shit and will run someone down through 3 ppl.

pfft clearing saying "say wut" because he doesn't turtle for shit and will run someone down through 3 ppl.

 I see. I should really get his replays to see how it's done

It's almost like the WC3 community except less popular.

Most strategy games actually favor aggressive play. Not, I'M CHASING YOU TO YOUR PORTAL AT LEVEL 3 kind of stuff, but sensible strategic pushing based on your opponent's strengths and locations. Really good players like Soccer and Teseer will punish you so hard every time you go to shop. Teseer also does the really aggressive early play with the UG, which is pretty cool and unique.

Most strategy games actually favor aggressive play.

Well, curiously enough, most fighting games and action RPGs (a similar genre) definitely do not. Aggressive player = dumb and dead player. The only form of being aggressive in skilled matches in, say, Soul Calibur IV is careful and restrained counter-attack on serious frame advantage after a successful dodge/block/GI. Demigod is somewhat similar in this respect.

Careful with Erebus is fail

True but that's because every single one of his skills competes with his other skills for "Best Survival Skill in the Game except Shield III" 

eh you are forgetting poor old Sedna's heal and silence but in general Erebus is much harder to kill then Sedna imo.

In ganks, Silence only works as a survival skill if you're at pretty high HP and they aren't stupidly clumping around you. Plus, there are counters to it (Oak prematurely shielding himself, for example, or another Sedna staying out of Silence range to Heal III the UB after he gets Silenced). 

Though, yes, in general it works pretty well, and even if you're at low HP you can just sigil first. 

Then heal doesn't help in 3v1s much either (: 

That's why I was saying Mass Charm, Mist, and Batswarm are better than Silence and Heal in terms of crazy 3v1 survivals. Bite is no better than Heal in that situation but... 

Well I tend to compare silence + tp to the gayness that is shield 3 + tp.

I also forgot the general ridiculousness of bramble shield + mulch that me and RAWRRR have come to love to save our own asses with queen.

I like this guy, he actually sounds educated.

Its funny when people insult my intelligence based on internet dialog when they know nothing about me. It is assumed I am a moron because I use cuss words in my sentence structure. We are all big boys and girls here a few cuss words never hurt anyone. Perhaps I am just not as uptight and high strung as some of you grammer nazis and proper english advocates. Or maybe you just get off by insulting someone over the internet.