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nom's nasty and definitive guide on passive (Gear) Items (minion builds excluded)

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nom's nasty and definitive guide on passive (Gear) Items (minion builds excluded)

mostly incomplete and poorly written, to be edited or deleted at will ^^

from Demigod Forums

Ok, for the moment, this guide will ony cover passive items (aka Gear Items), and doesn't cover items that maybe useful for minion heavy builds (minion oak/erebus/¿queen?). Also, it won't cover yet late game useful items, that will probably be added later.

So, here we go. First off, here's the list of reasonably priced items every DG basic kit should revolve around:
 
- Banded Armor (550g, 400HP/+5Hps), can be replaced/complemented later by Hauberk of Life (1750g, 600 HP/+10Hps) (a really good idea in specific cases).
- Scalemail (400g, 600 armor), should be replaced later by Nimoth Chestplate (1500g, 750 armor/500 HP).
- Scaled Helm (550g, 600MP/4+Mps), complemented with/replaced by Vlemish Faceguard (1750g, 1050MP/+15Mps) and Plenor Battlecrown (1500g, 1575MP/+70%Mps).
- Unbreakables Boots (1500g, 600HP/+5Hps/800MP), pretty much a must-have-never-replace item under any-all circumstances.
- Monks idol (900g, good damage dealers and friendly healers) for Generals, should be replaced later by Bishops (2700) almost in all cases.


 
Then we have a few special items that should only be used under certain circumstances:


- Boots of speed (1000g, +10% movement speed) (good item for reg, Fire/Blade Hybrid TB),
- Nature's reckoning (1500g, almost must-buy for Sedna and DA, good 600 mana pool increase and gives much needed 250 AoE damage that procs. a lot more than it should, hedgie would never explain what's the bug with it),
- Siege gunners idol(1050g, enough damage and HP to hurt enemy DGs and survive most DGs AoE skills, Siege Demolishers are a good upgrade if u have the spare money later, will get nullified once giants enter the field though). Almost essential for sedna/queen to improve their damage output, really good for Occ. if you spec KoMinotaurs, a good addition to Ereb/Oak damage output, they also help soaking up enemy AoE damage (i.e. chain of lighing, nature's proc).
- Minotaurs idol, only good for minion builds AND (the dirt-cheap 350g ones) must-buy for Occ. with KoM. for a nice Hp boost puttting them behind the crystal. Remember to send em back there again after you use a TP, they TP with you.
- Wand of Speed (temporary +15% movement speed increase, sometimes useful for reg, TB to a lesser extent, generally not worth it for other DGs since it occupies a much needed consumable slot).
- Bloodstone Ring (1750g, +400HP/+3% life steal, on the too-expensive side, very rarely useful for 5-HP items builds i.e. BotS UB).


Beyond these "cheap" gear items (unless i missed something), there's NOTHING worth buying until REALLY late game, with these exceptions:
 
- Orb of Defiance for Rook, UB. Occ and other DGs if you find yourself being the main target often, and already have your basic set and the spare money. Gives a nice Armor and HP boost without occupying a gear slot. Be very careful with its use though, more often than not you will find yourself turning to stone just to give the whole enemy team time to catch up, close in and unleash all his damage on you as you "unfreeze". Almost never activate Orb in enemy territory/flags; generally, the closer to your base you activate it, the better, higher chances for a friendly teammate/priest to come and shield/heal/gadget you as you "unfreeze".
 
- Narmoths Ring for UB, cos of his high AutoAttack damage and speed, some TB builds with high AA damage (blade Ice/Hybrid or Maxed Fire Aura Fire based TB). Generally not worth getting (until really late game) for other DGs unless you got several early kills.
 
That's it. Groffling, Hungarlings, anything else (except JourneyMans Treads, that will hopefully be covered later) is just not worth it (in the best case) until-after you have your giants in the field. Even then, they are very questionable items for their cost (hungarlings is 500g short of what giants cost, mind you). 
 
On top of that, if you buy any of those items "early" in a close, balanced game, it most probably mean:
- You didn't have to buy curr1 nor FS, and/or
- You're not providing your teammates the great help an upgrade to bishops give if you're a general, or
- You didn't buy curr2 (3k gold) at War Rank 5-6, that greatly helps the whole team in close and long games, or
- You're not saving for reinforcements upgrades (catapults, giants), which means you won't have money to buy em when you need them (as soon as you reach Warrank 8-10), which means you might have to sell that really expensive item and lose a lot of gold (>1000g) in the process.

That's it for now, I might or might not edit-expand this guide, we'll see. Comments-critiques-addititions are welcome, flaming is not.

9,626 views 36 replies
Reply #26 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 25

I would tend do disagree on sedna being number 1 and put rook/ub there.
Sedna is focus fired the most in 3v3 mashups, and she doesn't have the HP to survive it very well. If they manage to chase off the Sedna they will collapse and destroy the remaining 2 demigods. Sedna also gains more of a benefit from the passives of having Orb (+500 HP and Armor) since 500 HP is a greater % of her HP compared to UB and Rook. 

For UB, Orb gives a stalling mechanism for when he is caught with his pants down and needs one or both of his support bitches to port in. This is great and all but Orb is, by nature, a defensive/reactive item and UB is an offensive/proactive Demigod. It does allow you to be somewhat more aggressive while chasing because you can secure a kill and then Orb.

Rook and Sedna are both defensive/reactive so they are able to use Orb more effectively. Both are "tanky" and Orb is an item that compliments that. The reason I rate UB so highly is because of the stalling, and the fact it adds an impressive 500 HP to the sigil-spamming fucker. 

I s'pose that an Ooze beast will be able to utilize Orb somewhat better than a hybrid. 
End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

Huh?  UB still oozes while in orb, therefore it's the best item for him.  You can spit on somebody, then do another 700 damage from 5 seconds of ooze while hopefully blocking a few enemy skills.  It's especially effective against Erebus or Oak with minions and another UB.  Sedna's at least 5th on the priority list, behind UB-TB-Rook and Reg (Although Reg eventually has to drop it, can be great for a while).  I'd only want Sedna to have it if the other team has both Rook and UB.

Reply #27 from Demigod Forums Top

I know he still oozes but all you have to do is walk away -.- You'll get at most one or two seconds. 

By that logic, Rook blows UB out of the water because his towers still shoot while he is Oozed.

Even then, Magnificent Presense and Healing Wind II still work while Orb'd. If you are focus fired as Sedna and you orb while everyone is still around you, you're still contributing to your allies by giving them the large monk heals. Sure, same logic with UB (run into the mob then Ooze), but it's easier to guarantee that your allies will be around you than your enemies. 

You can also just do "more" with an Orb as Sedna. Ice TB puts Deep Freeze IV on you, you Orb. Debuff removed, and you didn't have to waste the heal on yourself. UB spits on you, you Orb. Don't have to waste heal on yourself. The primary benefit is that you rarely have to "waste" heals on yourself. Even if you do, Heal > Orb > Heal > Silence is a fantastic stall rotation and it lasts a full 10 seconds. 

 

Basically, saying that because Ooze works through Orb and therefore makes it the best is an incomplete argument. 

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #28 from Demigod Forums Top

While i dont typically get orb for occ, it is definitely fun in 3v3 situations since the shield animation doesn't work.
End of quote

hah - true enough :)

Reply #29 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 27
I know he still oozes but all you have to do is walk away -.- You'll get at most one or two seconds. 

By that logic, Rook blows UB out of the water because his towers still shoot while he is Oozed.

Even then, Magnificent Presense and Healing Wind II still work while Orb'd. If you are focus fired as Sedna and you orb while everyone is still around you, you're still contributing to your allies by giving them the large monk heals. Sure, same logic with UB (run into the mob then Ooze), but it's easier to guarantee that your allies will be around you than your enemies. 

You can also just do "more" with an Orb as Sedna. Ice TB puts Deep Freeze IV on you, you Orb. Debuff removed, and you didn't have to waste the heal on yourself. UB spits on you, you Orb. Don't have to waste heal on yourself. The primary benefit is that you rarely have to "waste" heals on yourself. Even if you do, Heal > Orb > Heal > Silence is a fantastic stall rotation and it lasts a full 10 seconds. 

Basically, saying that because Ooze works through Orb and therefore makes it the best is an incomplete argument. 
End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

If I'm using Orb and it's forcing your team to walk away every time that's great.  If I'm UB and I see Sedna Orb I just move into better position and still kill you when you come out of it.  If you see me Orb you run away or take my ooze and spit damage, clearly one outcome's a little better. Orb is most effective when it's a full on 3 vs 3 fight which means the other team can't always afford to just walk away.

You're not entirely right about Rook, if he orbs in a full tower farm yea that's going to do a lot of damage but the towers also get distracted by the grunts and minions, UB's guaranteed to be doing damage to anyone who's around him while Orb'd.   

Reply #30 from Demigod Forums Top

Rook with orb is amazing if you have teammates who aren't the best about teleporting in to save you. It gives them a pretty good window of time to teleport to one of your towers in case they weren't map-aware. It's also great if you're getting chased and you have about 7 seconds left on your primary teleportation method cooldown, or you need a tiny bit of mana for it.

It is rather expensive, but 500hp/500armor is really nothing to sneeze at considering it doesn't take up an armor slot. 

If you're in a tight game with highly contested portals you may want, or need to carry locks. Nothing worse than realizing no one on your team has locks because they all got orbs of defiance.

Reply #31 from Demigod Forums Top

@Split: Orb was a must-buy for Rook before people started using Sigils. Orb is also good when playing with scrubs but I figured it was obvious enough it wasn't worth mentioning. 

You also can't just change from my 3v3 argument and put that into a 1v1 argument. Generally if you Orb in a SvUB it's used at the very beginning of the fight to rinse the initial spit (assuming not standing on a bad flag). MP with Sedna allows her to rinse one out of every 3 spits. 

Going back to the 3v3, if Team A focus fires the Sedna (as they ought to do), and she either Heal > Orbs > Heals or proactively Orbs, her aura buffs are still contributing to the team.  MP + HW II + Counter Healing > Ooze in a 3v3, espiecially since all 3 of her auras have a larger radius.

Also, UB contributes far more auto-attack damage than Sedna, so really it's

MP + HW II + Counter Healing - Sedna's AA > Ooze - UB's AA

If instead, Team A focus fires the Sedna but the UB has it instead the Sedna gets pushed back and out while the UB wails on them. Then Sedna has to sit over in the corner and cower and provide long range support/heals for the UB with Orb who never used it. Also, Sedna benefits more from the passive HP and Armor bonuses because she has a small health pool and the +500 HP helps a ton. 

That said, Sedna does have really poor timing for acquiring Orb, which is why you usually don't see it on her and see it on UB or Rook instead. Initial Monks + early investment in Citadel + gearing + eventual investment in better Monks + contributing to purchase units means that she won't have the ability to easily drop the 3500g until WS 9 or so, usually. UB can get it much earlier and he can abuse it during that window.

However, the UB dropping it in front of the crystal (after a few warscores pass, and possibly with the Sedna dropping an item in return as to not gimp the UB) and the Sedna picking it up can be a better choice than leaving it on the UB depending on the game flow. Against gank teams like DA + Erebus + Oak, then the UB should definitely keep it, though the Sedna will be hunted too. 

Reply #32 from Demigod Forums Top

Lol once you say there's something better than Ooze in 3 vs 3 fights I'm out, not a logical argument anymore.

Reply #33 from Demigod Forums Top

Lol, and once you start distorting what others say/write McShane we should all just ignore you.

He DIDN'T say there's anything better than Ooze in 3v3, his point was: UB loses more (damage dealing with his omgwtfbbq AA, his main role in DG) when he Orbs than what Sedna loses when she Orbs (she still provides healing aura-counter healing, enhanced monk heals, decreased cooldowns aura if MP, she's still a friendly healer/supporter in Orb, her main role in DG).

I don't necessarily agree with Sedna being the best candidate for Orb, though. UB is the melee damage dealer/tank in the game, so he's the most likely to be in the frontline, hence the most likely to be the target, hence the better chances to nullify Pents/Bites/Fireballs/Hammer SLams etc. etc. if he's the one carrying and activating the Orb, while ALSO ooze-damaging nearby enemies without tacking damage himself.

Same with Rook, he's Huge, slow and low armored, so he's a very likely target for the whole enemy team, and his towers can deal a lot of damage (much more than ooze, and you cant walk out towers range as easily as out of ooze range) if he orbs in the middle of his tower farm. On top of that, he benefits a lot more from the additional HP and especially ARMOR that Orb provides, given his low base armor nature.

So that's why i put UB and Rook on the top of my OoD list. I might add Sedna as a good 3rd candidate in the OP, we'll see. I find ranged characters the less likely to benefit from OoD, though it might be somewaht useful on a Staff of Renewal Reg late game, the decreased cooldowns Staff provies makes OoD more useful and can help him hold/retake an enemy-giants/DGs infested HP/portal flag lol.

Still, Staff of Renewall Reg will get greater benefits from Wand of Speed, and at much lower price, than from OoD IMHO.  

Btw, on the cooldowns note, it might not be the best idea to Orb when TB puts a DF IV on you, unless you enjoy 100+ secs cooldowns on it  :grin:   or are planning to sell it inmediately after the current gank/fight lol.

Reply #34 from Demigod Forums Top

Btw, on that note, it might not be the best idea to Orb when TB puts a DF IV on you, unless you enjoy 100+ secs cooldowns on it
End of quote

You just have to drop it on the ground and pick it back up. 

Also, note that Rook doesn't have this depressingly low armor value like you guys are pointing out. At level 20, Rook has roughly 600 armor less than UB. That's the value of Scailmail, or just having an Orb of Defiance in your pocket. Rook has the highest effective HP, anyway, for most of the game due to his massive health pool (which then results in larger monk heals). 

Reply #36 from Demigod Forums Top

ah you're right