OK, guys...this is the latest from our ripper to me via email.
I guess it says it all....


"I have no interest in skinning,to become a skinner or any such thing,suffice to say it does not hold my interest one little bit.I uploaded that skin to Winamp out of boredom, I had 10 minutes to kill at work and the rest is history.
Yes Treetog is probably a nice person,yes he is a talented artist and I have no qualms with him at all,but the fact of the matter is, the way this whole situation has been handled is extremely childish,and it's starting to get annoying(but also slightly amusing)
I have reacted in the manner that I have out of sheer stubborness,because you and others got my back up.
Now as you can tell,the tone of this email is different to the previous ones simply because in your previous email you treated me with respect,so I am returning that gesture.
I will make you a deal,when 'Spunkit' goes past 25,000 downloads(it's on 21,000 now) I will remove it from Winamp,OK??
My colleagues at work find all this stuff highly amusing,but to me it's just got extremely tedious.

BTW when I posted that skin to Winamp back in May,I had totally forgot about it till 2 days ago when I received an email about it,from someone who had downloaded it from Winamp.

You skinners sure take your art seriously,don't you??Mind you I suppose I would too if I put in the work that people like Treetog obviously puts in his.

Peace & Greetings"
[End of paste]

Nothing more to say....

Before I say anything else, let me get this out of the way: treetog, you should seriouslly consider legal action. The fact that you've made your work available for free does not in any way lessen your right to control over your work.

This is unbelievable... I registered a WC account just so I could reply to this.

Whoever this ripper is, he/she/it is the proverbial net troll. Let's look at the signs:

- When confronted, his first insult will invariably be directed towards his opponent's sexual orientation.

- When popular opinion turns against him, he'll try to save face by deeming the whole affair "boring" and/or "amusing".

- He'll also belittle the community that's confronted him.

treetog, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope that Nullsoft do indeed honor their promise to remove the skin by Thursday.

I'm really saddened by all of this.
The internet, and my love for skinning and theming has given me the chance to meet some wonderful and talented people, and to inter-relate with them as friends and equals. I have met people whom I can honestly say that I both love, admire, and respect.
Unfortunately, it has also exposed me to the depths of antisocial behaviour as evidenced by our lovely lady skin thief, to whom I have been corresponding.
And such a wasted effort it turns out to be. By her own admission, it is all a big joke...a laugh.
Well, damn it, I for one am not laughing.
Nullsoft needs to lift its game.
It needs to show serious intent to respect the people who provide their popularity as a skinnable program.

Nullsoft must put in place the ability to amend its database as soon as a skin theft is reported.
Nullsoft must acknowledge that 'ripping' is indeed a crime.
It is a crime against the original author's name and reputation.
The propagation of this crime is in fact the equivalent of what has been shown to be the case with Napster.
By hosting unlawful copies of another's property, they, too, are guilty of theft of copyright.
It is simply not sufficient, nor is it appropriate, that they palm it off as...OK, when we next update our database we shall fix it.
Meanwhile, 25000-odd copies of stolen artwork are floating around the world like festering maggots....an insult to the original owner of the work.
If I lived in this person's home country, England, I believe, I'd be hunting her down to confront her face-to-face, with the accusation of theft.
Yes, I'm pissed.
Time for another beer...
Grrrr...

You think this person is in England Jafo?
Just get me an address and this person won't have a computer within 1 day! I know some REALLY naughty people who would take pleasure in removing EVERYTHING from this persons abode, and I mean EVERYTHING.
My job brings me in contact with some of the biggest low-lifes around, but sometimes they can be useful...........

I too am dismayed at all this, it's just the total lack of respect and good manners that annoys me the most. I blame their parents, my children will NOT grow up with this kind of attitude.
This person also mentioned work colleauges, which means she is probably abusing her employers time and equipment too. I'm sure they would be interested to find out about this.

Just get me an address......

/me gets out book of low-lifes and begins to dial........

This psycho is living proof that contraception is sometimes the best choice.

/me passes jafo the beer

Not to rip on ya treetog but don't for get we
skin this stuff for free so ripping is going
to accure.Thers nothing illegal about what he did (except for the moral fact that he stole from you). If we had people paying for the skins
we make, then theres something that can be done
legally. Hey he gave you credit, its not like he said it was completely his. Maybe if ya ask him nicely he'll take it down.



P.S. I'm new to the skining scene please don't start pouncing on me for responce, thanks.

Actually, it does have legal hooks. Any work you make (with some restrictions ofcourse, but not in this case) is automatically copyrighted. Treetog _owns_ this piece. This means that it can only be modified or distributed (in public) if Treetog gives permission for it.

And this is not just my opinion, it is the law.

Indeed. Sue Nullsoft. They should have deep pockets.

This weekly database thing is just ridiculous. Nullsoft's only motivation is that they don't want their newsletter to send readers to an error page. Oh would it look bad for such a big serious corporation like AOL to send readers on a 404 page.

Winamp didn't become what it is because it would be the best player ever: it just became the major player thanks to skinners. And now that they're so big, they don't care anymore and don't feel the need to respect the community.

I seriously think that:

- skinners should stop uploading any winamp skins anywhere

- nobody should consider skinning winamp 3

- skinning sites should either close their winamp sections, or put big signs all over them stating how nullsoft treats skinners

And if Nullsoft does remove the skin Thursday, or even earlier, shouldn't change the reaction. They have clearly shown that they don't care at all for skinners.

Before the skin is removed, it will have been downloaded tens of thousands of times, and Nullsoft doesn't mind - oh, they do mind, they are just so happy it gets so much traffic.

So I say boycott, and I say definitive boycott. This is just _not_ forgivable.

Tree... Best of luck.. Nail his ass!!

HEY!!!!!!!!!

why is everybody acting like being an american faggot is an insult?

i am an american faggot, and damn proud!


(here is wisdom: beware any woman who hates gay men)

Raistlin, I won't jump down on you...[I rarely do], but you are very wrong. Whether something is 'given' away freely or sold for a price makes no difference with the rights of ownership. That belongs with the author of the work.
The problem here is that the ripper in question has absolutely no interest in, or understanding of the graphic art world.
As far as she is concerned we would be better off pissing into the wind....

Kenray...we can love American faggots like you, but to be called anything that we are not, is the problem....she could have said tree-hugging hippy crap and got the same response.
Now, if she'd called you an American faggot, you could have responded...'why, ma'am, have we met before? You seem to know me so well'....hehe....

Wow...what a post. I feel for Treetog. However, although I would agree he has a legal issue, enforcing it is impossible. You'd have to remove it from every site and then the hard drive of every person who downloaded it. While it's preferrable, it's just not probable.

This is the risk every skinner takes in sharing their work (unfortunately).

On the upside, there are many, many more of us who appreciate the work in silence. I look for a few of my favorite skinner's works on a daily basis and enjoy each and every work. I appreciate their effort and wish I had the talent to do such things myself.

I believe that they have made more friends than enemies and that more people enjoy their work than abuse it.

Although it's disgusting that somebody shows such little respect for anothers efforts, it's not like it's a new thing (thieves, murderers, etc.) The fact that we find some of these ethicless individuals online is a fact we accept but try to ignore.

I think you did the right thing by making the request to remove it, but once they said no, it was time to move on. Focus on the thousands of silent (and some not so silent here) followers you have who love and respect your efforts and try to forget the assholes who bring you down from time to time.

Please don't let this deter any of your skinners from your efforts. It's a wonderful thing you do and you're changing the face of computing/applications in a better way. Keep your chins up and your skins though.

udder

ROFL - you'd never guess the schools had broken up for the summer (well they have over here in the gloriously damp UK) - every 6 year old's out to play. It's idiots like you that make using the Internet a real drag sometimes.

I sure hope karma works her magic on this Bitch sooner rather then later!

*Sings Karma Chamelion*

I deleted the post. Looks like we'll have to require valid email addresses to activate accounts.

Okay, I'm going to regret saying this but I think it needs to be said even if it upsets some people.

Sometimes the way skinning community handles ripping is so heavy handed that it is very counter productive.

Sometimes it's important to take a step back and decide whether the action you're taking is designed to make you feel better or to accomplish something.

To a non-skinner, seeing people get very upset to what amounts to (in their eyes) a few pixels of graphics can appear melodramatic and hysterical.

I am not saying that is how I feel. I am a skinner too and a software developer to boot, I definitely am disgusted at someone taking Treetog's skin, renaming it, and uploading it to some other site.

I had this same discussion with the Kaleidoscope people who were threatening Mercury because one of his skins was inspired (key word, inspired, not ripped) by some Kaleidoscope author. They were calling him names, flaming him, threatening him with lawsuits, etc.

Now, here's the issue that is hard to accept for any of us: There's not a lot that skin authors can do. That is, skin authors have very very little leverage outside of ethics and morality being on their side. Thus their best route is to use persuassion based on the argument of "doing the right thing". Antagonizing, insulting, putting people down, threatening, flaming, etc. these things may make one feel better but they don't usually accomplish the goal.

In my view, the best way to handle a solution is largley what Treetog has done. Send a gentle email to the author asking them to remove the skin voluntarily, explaining how many hours he spent working on the skin and that he really should be the one who decides where his skin is uploaded to. If the ripper doesn't do that, then email the admin of the site with a similar gentle email explaining the situation.

Just my 2 cents. Please don't flame me.

/me grabs the flaming gerbil shooter and launches away at Brad....

Always gotta speak on the side of reason.... sheesh... ruin all our fun just as we were starting to feel good about beating up on that bag nasty....

Listen to Frogboy

Anything created by somebody is automatically copyrighted. Technically speaking, even forwarding an email is illegal. That's no joke. Technically, legally, forwarding an email without the author's permission is illegal.

I know you are right, Brad....I've been around in this game long enough to know. But sometimes you get really frustrated.

I don't have much time for idiots at the best of times, and this one really got under my skin....

Seems I missed some posts which were deleted....pity, I would have been interested in those.....just to see how our ripper behaved...

Sigh.....
The annoying thing is, she got her entertainment as she wanted....

True. Lots of things are technically illegal.

But in practice, what are you going to do? If Joe schmoe tkaes one of your skins and starts parading the net calling it his own, what are you going to do?

I always take the view that kindness and reason will win out 9 times out of 10 and threats and nastiness will fail 9 times out of 10.

I try never to make threats or take a hard line unless I'm in a position and willing to back it up with action if necessary. It's much easier to rely on the assumption that 99% of people will respond to politeness and reason.