Well, we won't discuss noob v noob here: weird shit is happening during those matches.

Haha. The coolest thing I ever saw in a noob match and I've always wanted to try it was me vs 2 noobs on cata. Idk what the matchup was but there I am fighting one of them 1v1 early game, like first few minutes and I am crunching numbers on how much hp he has. Its so early even if he sigils he gets at most a little over 1k hp and if he uses a pot there is no way he lives. Well he pops a quick hp pot(like 1 sec cast ones) ends up full health and he ends up killing me. This happens 2 times and I can't figure it out. Then I think "Is this guy really using artifact pots 2 minutes into the game?..........yep. I still won but it was funniest thing ever.

As you like - I'd wager we are generally agreeing here, though.

Yes, no doubt.

heh - awesome.  Nice to see that folks are still coming up with interesting strategies

with demigoddb down i cant find a skill tree. 

KoM is only useful early game and very late game at high levels. 

The reason i say that is because it's quite an investment in skills and gold.  It's a nice boost in HP late game when you can max out the skill, afford minotaurs and park them at the crystal. It's good early game because monks are typically the first purchase. With that said, if i had magus rod though i would definitely go with BS 2 at 11.

I typically don't play with magus though, i prefer hungarlings - especially against a tower rook.  Magus is definitely awesome and is over $2k cheaper so it is a good item.  My problem with magus is that when i can afford it, my mana is already slightly manageable (magus seems to work best with scaled + vlemish but after i purchase those two items, i want unbreakeables, nimoths etc.)  I also really like the combo scaled + plenor early on so hungarlings fits into that quite well.  Plus there is the aura which benefits teammates.

I'm going to have to look at that electrocution again. I am certain that I have seen +0's on regen when used on me.

It doesn't work. The issue was addressed by Uberfix 1.02 (you can do a search here for more info).

Oh, and about that BS mana spent/restored ratio...

Mana cost:mana restored

BS I 500:675

BS II 800:1100

Yes, thats where I'm at with it. That's why Im struggling with getting it early. I've been kinda just getting it to fill the gap between the start and until I hit the first shop. At that point the scaled and plenor is in so mana is fine for a while.

Agreed. I've been just trying to get away with Vlem+magnus but I want the other stuff too. I haven't really got the exact point to get it at. I want it to be early, though, like before level 7. Idk if thats guna work.

Yeah, I know that's what uberfix says but I'm certain I've seen the +0's on the stats page. I don't believe anything until I see it for myself. heh

Thank you. Soo with magnus rod:

BS 1 net mana gain 425

BS 2 net mana gain 700

Well, I knew I wasn't seeing things the +0's on both health and mana are definetly there when you get hit by electrocution but maybe the regen is still happening. I'll have to check that out today.

When I played, I always saw Oc as my nemesis as TB. Damn generals. 

Heck ya. He's scary sometimes. Especially when he gets a double kill off of chain lightning from the fn citadel it seemed like. I did that the other day, double killed a UB and Ereb. I was just guna concede and walk away right there. I thought it was so cool I didn't even want to play anymore.

Well, I knew I wasn't seeing things the +0's on both health and mana are definetly there when you get hit by electrocution but maybe the regen is still happening. I'll have to check that out today.

Where? On the stats screen?

Yes. As soon as I got hit I opened stats screen. Double +0's. I didn't check my hp or mana bars to see if they were still increasing though.

OK, soo this is what I found out about electrocution. Test: AI skirm on. NO uber fix.

It works 100% on hp regen cutting it down to +0, which is what I was really after, but where it is messed up is on the mana regen. Now it still works on mana regen but a little screwy. As far as I can tell it eliminates the first mana item in your equipment only. I didn't really get to test out this theory to a great extent. I got hit with it with only 1 helm and it put me at the +0 mana regen. Then I tried it with 1 helm and magnus and went from +40 to +14 mana regen. I wanted to try to get a few helms and drop one to actually see what it was doing but couldn't get the AI to hit me with chain more than once in a fight so I was getting frustrated. Maybe we need to look at Oc in the skirmish mod, he really needs to spam his chain more. I was fighting 3 of them and was only getting hit one or 2 times in a fight with all 3 of them there. I didn't watch the replay so idk if they were just always oom or what.

So electrocution works just fine for what I wanted it for and any impact on mana regen is just an extra. I think I will just go with the theory of it eliminating the first mana item in set up for now. I may test it again later.

@jongalt

So I had a game last night that may make me rethink the magnus. Me-Oc/Kira-TB/Kickass-Reg vs Andyman-Oak/Pappa-Reg/Tomb-ereb. I think it did okay thru mid game but once late game hit, it was a big no-go. I found I needed that extra slot for lock or sigil. I went no sig for a while with ugly results. I can usually get away with no sig but with no stun or interrupt on our team it was just fail. I could 1v1 with any of them but once ereb AND oak came around damn I was dead and couldn’t even run. We couldn’t even gank anyone unless it was reg and he only got caught once roaming solo.  I’m still going to try the magnus a little more but will definitely scratch the Oc/FireTB/Reg off my list. I did not like that at all. The guys did great I was probably the weakest one but just the lack of stun was not fun. The game ended up lagging out before I could get my explode and electrocution in. We both had giants we were behind on kills but I think we may have been able to turn it when I dropped the magnus and went hungarling.  

@IN1

Don’t be oak. I forget how annoying he is with the damn shield crap. I usually like playing against oaks that have a preoccupation with towers but Andy’s was like siege demos on steroids. You had to go deal with him and you had to take your buddy too. heh

So electrocution works just fine for what I wanted it for and any impact on mana regen is just an extra. I think I will just go with the theory of it eliminating the first mana item in set up for now. I may test it again later.

Very interesting info! Thanks, brash. If it works normally on hp regen, it may still be a viable option, even w/o Uberfix.

Me-Oc/Kira-TB/Kickass-Reg

I played with the same guys this morning as Sed. Our teamplay was a bit uncoordinated (kickass wasn't used to Kira's hyper-aggressive playstyle, I think), but otherwise the game was very nice.

PS: You should really coach me a bit Occ vs. Occ, unless you don't like 1v1 matches. I'm afraid to enter serious games with my ultra-noob Occ.

Yeah, we were a bit off the whole game too and the lag didn't help much.

Sure. I'd like to try my MCP vs a blood OCc. I'm just starting out with him too so idk about the coaching. I'm usually on from like 11pm/12am EST untill 2am/3am EST. PM me.