whoooh, i can post again

/me thinks SickPuppy has poor reading comprehension skills.

Did fb say anyone donwloading 50 megs of skins is a pirate? no.

/me loves how stardock gets compared to Microsoft because it won't put up a hoverdesk section when hoverdesk doesn't have a desktopx section on its site. The double standards are funny.

I'm pretty sure Ford doesn't have a GM link on its site and Pepsi doesn't have a Coke link on its site, also.

For that matter, you won't find MS links on Apple or Linux sites, either.

Frank, a simple clarification.

Hoverdesk.net does not house it's own skinz; they are housed by other skinz sites.

Stardock.net is not a skinz site it is their company site. Other sites house skinz for their apps as well.

When this site was started is was only to be "funded" by Stardock. As this issue continues to come up, posts have revealed that this is not the case at all and that Stardock does have a major say in WC and that any competing app will not find a home here.

Stardock pays the bills here; their decisions are understandable and valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but what seems to be the problem here is that people were led to believe that WC would be something different than what has actually become of it and they just want to be clear of that fact. To hear it from the horses mouth if you will.

As far as the 50mb a month goes if you think about it that really isn't all that difficult to do. Most of the nice DX Themes are over a Meg and actually average between 2.3 and 3.3mb per theme if you take an average of those two you get about 2.8mb. You would only need to download 15-18 DX Themes to reach that 50mb mark, if this site has about 4000,000 unique visitors a month (and who knows how many of those are new people looking at these themes for the first time) of course you are going to have people that will download 50mb a month, but over time those people will have downloaded the skinz that they like and their download percentage will become much, much less. But then the more you advertise the more new people will arrive and the cycle continues. I am sitting on DSL and it only takes me a very short time to download these very large DX Themes, and you know, that is what they are there for.

One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6038mb download, which is more than twice a large as the average DX theme. When it was published here is was on the front page as a news item, how many people do you think out of those 400,000 unique visitors downloaded it? As of the time of this post the count was at 2889. This theme alone has used 17,443,782,000 bytes worth of bandwidth in the last 13 days. That’s 17.4 gigs used by one DX Theme.

The current top download NewXP 3 - mcs2k1 is a 602k download, released on 08/14/01, and it has already had 4361 downloads and that number keeps jumping as each minute goes by. This theme alone has used 2.6 gigs worth of bandwidth in just 2 days.

In my opinion the bandwidth problem doesn’t have much to do with the people that are downloading 50mb a month, but it has a lot more to do with the popularity and size of the skinz that are being downloaded.

0.02

Typo correction:
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6038mb download.

Should read:
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6.038mb download.

.....but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).

If "nagging" people who pirate software and then download megs of skins for the pirated programs causes some of them to leave, that's an acceptable solution because fewer people is fine.

But if all that fails, I don't understand why someone would object to trying to stop people who are pirating our software and downloading many megabytes of skins. As has been pointed out, anyone downloading 50 MEGABYTES of skins isn't a casual user. A casual user wouldn't even be aware of any of this. I haven't even downloaded 50 megs of skins. But there are already thousands of people who have. And if they've at least registered the software they use, then that's great, we hope they download everything. But what about the guy who'se using a cracked copy of WindowBlinds? Why should people paying their hard earned money to register their software have to pay for the guy pirating the software and massively downloading?

Frank, those are all direct cut and paste quotes from Frogboys messages...... Even if it's not said outright, it implies that the people who are downloading excessively are using pirated/cracked versions...... I was just asking why he thinks this or makes the connection.....

Anyway, the point is not about pirating, it's about reducing / managing bandwidth. Since my previous post I have had some more thoughts on the subject.

1. Why not introduce a queuing system such as that used by www.fileplanet.com where bandwidth is constrained and people downloading have to queue, for sometimes over an hour, to get their download. This may sound daft BUT if someone is just downloading tons of skins for the sake of it, it's gonna be a huge deterent if they have to wait for hours to get them.

2. Why not introduce download quotas. Every registered user (of the site) gets 20meg of download 'space' per month. Visitors are only allowed a max of 5 downloads per visit, tracked via IP monitoring / cookies....... When you upload, as long as you have an account and the skin passes moderation, the upload KB/MB get added to your download quota. That way you either leech up to your max quota per month then wait for the next month or you have to give something to the site AND the community to be able to download more skins. Lets face it, you can't use more than one skin per program at a time so downloading hundred for the same program is stupid anyway. How many people have tons of skins they never use again, I know I used to have loads..... Now I have about 4 for most of the programs I use and if I download something new i usually junk one of the existing ones.

3. Enforce registering for downloads, or at least a members only part of the site where all the new skins and the majority of skins are kept leaving only older/or more dubious quality skins for unreg'd users.

4. I still think the moderation of submissions needs to be tightened up. How much bandwidth has been wasted by people downloading 20 versions of an XP skin to find that they're all virtually identical. Good skins are made as compact as possible to increase speed of use, dumping all the crap would free up bandwidth considerably IMO.

5. I still think the subscription thing would work as well, as long as the skins were sensibly priced and there was a 'free' area for newbies/casual honest visitors.......

Well that's it...... How about some real discussion instead of just flaming (Frank ?) The problem isn't just gonna go away and if it's not resolved then we may just lose another site to that skinning site heaven in the sky !!

Frank Leon,

Hoverdesk.net hosts Hoverdesk as a product but nothing else

stardock.com hosts stardock products but nothing else

double standards ?

do you see Microsoft hosting MAC-OS on its site ??

Thats NOT THE ISSUE !!!

Good grief, I was not implying people who download a lot were pirates. I stated clearly over and over that if someone has purchased the programs, I hope they download everything on the site.

Please do not put words in my mouth.

You did so Frogboy. You specifically said anyone that downloads over 2.472.814mb is obviously pirating Stardock software and they should be corralled and placed into tiny boxes and shipped to randomly picked, complete unknown strangers houses to be used as garden gnomes and other various foliage decorative type objects.

hehe

You have a garden gnome don't you Doreen. It's ok, you can admit it. P)

Nahh.. need no to register..someone can crack it...i'm only using freeware.who care.......

/me wishes he had an Exile button....

SickPuppy - Why not introduce download quotas.

this idea seems sensible on paper, but i would have just run afoulw of it. 3 days a go i got a sound card for my work machine, so wanted a mp3 player.

i downloaded coolplayer, since it is skinable and highly recormended. i liked it, but wanted a different look.

i only downloaded the coolplayer skins that looked interesting, but that was about 40% of them. however, when i actually tried them most of them werent that nice, so i didnt keep them. so i downloaded 30 skins to get 2 nice skins since the preview pictures didnt really tell me what the skin would be like on my machine.

this only tends to happen when starting out with a program it is true, but for a new user who has just registered windowblinds (as a pertinent example) and is trying out different looks, they are likely to run into the limit quite quickly.

from what Frogboy has said, this isnt what they want to happen to people who have registered windowblinds.

how about this, after you have downloaded 20 meg in a month (or what ever figure seems reasonable) the site asks from evience that you are a registered user. if you are registered, no limit, but if you are not registered then the limit stays till next month.

i am presuming the site will have to ask, since how would wincustomize know that i am a registered user of OD? i may have used the same email address for my OD registration and here, but then again i may not have (i have several ).

of course, if it is true that stardock are tracking everyone all the time then they already know all this

a further thought, what about people who download loads of coolplayer, wallpaper, beatnik, ect stuff that isnt "directly" covered by an OD registration?

Just a question here that may be of no relevance to the topic at hand...

One of the reasons I purchased the WinCustomize CD a few weeks back was because it advertised two new "complete" themes by Treetog and Alexandrie. The demo pic was way too small to make out all the details, but I could make out Winamp WB and a few others. When it arrives and I elatedly load it up I discover that there is no NS skin for either one of these so called complete skin suites.

The product is now useless to me as I don't use individual skins, ever... I use NS, WB, and WA and was under the impression that complete themes would contain skins for at least those three proggies.

My question: why? Why have a section for NS on the website and advertise the CD as containing complete themes and then omit those skins.

In fact the only skins in those themes were for Stardock proggies if I remember correctly.

I tried to contact Treetog to ask if there would ever be a NS version and I received no response.

I would like to think that this was just an oversight, but it sure doesn't feel that way.

I can't speak for the NeXTSTart skin but I do know there's a Winamp skin on it.

You should really have created a new topic for that.

I believe the suite includes skins for:
+ DesktopX
+ ObjectBar
+ IconPackager
+ WInAmp
+ WindowBlinds

That seems reasonably complete.

If you figure that the skin archive is $10 of the cost and the 2 suites are the other $10, then that's 10 skins. $1 per skin is pretty cheap.

Maybe I missed it but through all the posts I lost track in reading so I'll just ask. Has or is wincustomize going to track users? If I download 50 skins right now and come back and download 50 more in 10 minutes and do that every 10 minutes for the rest of the day how will wincustomize be able to tell if i have winblinds let alone whether I have registered it?
I'm just curious is all.

-begin transmission

Flummox,

Actually Stardock has a really, really big super secret room with a bunch of really, really fast typing telepaths in it that track and log all of the users on WC and what they are downloading.

They are actually running really, really super secret test and recruiting new really, really fast typing telepaths as we speak. Did you happen to notice the "Typing Speed" or “How High Is Your Score” posts? Do not be fooled, they are not just “random fun community” type posts.

Beware the Dock called Star!

Uh oh... I think they're on to me, got to go. Will contact again.

-end transmission

Oh my god, there they come! The door! The door!

They know the colour of your underpants, too....

We use cameras. Stop touching yourself!

Third Eye, Frogboy is there some sign posted saying that I am completely retarded? Do you think I am completely retarded? I asked a simple question that could have resulted in a simple answer. I don't make habit of monitoring people online therefore I would not know quite how it could be done.
I did start typing that I felt it was wrong and that you are screwed up if you think that you are doing any good by watching over all of us.
Seriously, if you would take the time to answer one question instead of obsessing over who is downloading the most skins then the world might just be a happier place.
I apologize if I somehow put a dent in your day by asking a honest question. Rather than acting all put out by my lack of knowledge on which one would track all of us just tell me that you don't want me to know.
I remember a day when everyone found out that some mp3 trading programs used spy ware and how pissed off people were. I remember that people stopped using those programs or at least looked for other alternatives. Hence the reason why I asked how you plan on enacting your little big brother project.
It is sad to see that a so-called community cannot answer a person's question, yet a so-called community or shall I say corporate community, would take the time to make up some lame story.
Had the story been followed by an answer I wouldn't care. You are taking a touchy subject and then joking about it.
I understand that I don't contribute to wincustomise much but I never felt like this was a community and therefore choose not to be here often. Perhaps if I did contribute more you would have taken 5 minutes to answer my question.
So I guess the bad is on my part.
Thanks for your time. I know it is precious.
And Jafo--currently I am not wearing underwear so all efforts have been one big failure.

/me visualises flummox, sitting at the comp, sans knickers....hmmmm...skinny-skinning...

-begin transmission

Flummox,

I am in no way affiliated with the Dock of Star. To prove it I give you the alliance super secret pass phrase: If you can't kill it will a fly swatter then it is to big to stick it in your pocket.

See I am friend. Thireye friend, Jafo Jane. I was merely making a joke (shhhh, not really). I also have asked a really, really lot of questions that have gone unanswered. The reason for this I believe is that the Dock of Star are actually a race of super secret aliens set on dominating the universe and that it takes a while for these messages to be received by their transistor radios due to cosmic dust, sun radiation, etc... as well as trying to finding a vender that can make all of the cable they need to network the planets together to have faster comunication. (Actually they carefully monitor their responses as to be really, really super secretive and to subliminally put really, really super secret Dock of Star suggestions in our minds to control us, shhhh).

Do not fret Flummox, the People's front of the Non Dock of Star (PFNDS) (that is not the Non Dock of Star People's front, I believe we are all in agreement that we are all against the NDSPF, right?) are placing counter actions in place to over throw the 2.472.814mb warning system that their leader, Boy of Frog, has instituted.

We shall be victorious!

Doh! They have traced my signal again, will contact soon.

-end transmission