Is Diplomacy (pacts) "dead" as a feature of the Online Multiplayer Diplomacy game with the latest patch?

from Sins Forums

Is Diplomacy--making pacts--dead as a feature of online multiplayer on the Diplomacy expansion with the latest patch for humans v. humans locked team games?

Before the patch you could get pacts based on a one-way relationship.  The guy in the eco spot could send out his envoys to his ally fighting on the flank and get the pacts for both of them.  Now it isn't sufficient for one player to build a higher relationship, but both players must send envoys to each other and wait for both party's relationships to reach the sufficient level.

I suppose some players will still do it and the fighter on the flank could receive feed for that purpose, but it seems like, as a result, we'll see less and less pact activity, essentially making the game Entrenchment + Faster speeds + need for feed research.

(This is probably a good feature for unlocked FFA because it gives both players an interest in maintaining peace and not backstabbing one another since both would have a monetary investment in the envoys and the relationship.)

multiplayer
8,343 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

yes

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

WTF, the answer is no.  The guy fighting on the flank only needs one or two civ labs to SEND envoys to the guy, he never has to tech his races pacts.  They made envoys only 8 fleet supply each, and you can get a max of 2 points per planet, so 32 fleet supply points can get you all the pacts.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I think at least 1 pact takes more then 18 relationship.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I think it has 'decreased' but probably only by 20%. it all depends on the situation. If there is two feeders in the middle, then this doesn't effect it, however if there is one feeder, they, depending on the circumstances, will feed the other player for envoys. 

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

The pacts overall are less useful before in multiplayer, yet are more balanced.  Now they seem more like slightly more difficult upgrades that take longer, that have less overall effect on the victory of your fleet.  considering how tight these border battles can be on resources, the extra 2 civ labs are most reliably used by TEC.  Advent requires more logistics slots then any race to be effective at both economics and warfare, and therefore they do not gain nearly the benefit that Vasari and Tec do. 

I find that as advent in a not eco spot, any investment in anything other then ships on the front lines starts to lead me down the road of defeat.  The other races might enjoy pacts, but honestly I have rarely if ever had need of advent pacts before the patch, and after the patch.  In multiplayer the pacts are irrelevant unless you can force a stalemate(or get fed) long enough to switch modes from military to economy without sacrificing any tactical advantage.  It depends upon the skill gap between the two players, if they are close in skill they will be hard pressed and therefore diplomacy is the farthest thing from their minds as far as effective additions to their fleet.  Now if envoys had some more interesting abilities that could be used in combat to say, prep a gravity well for attack, that would be something. 

Using an envoy with an ability like "deceive" that would increase planetary damage by 10% for the planet affected by that envoy would probably make the diplomacy tree more viable. No direct attack abilities, but something similar that would be the resulting affect of some sort of successful deceit that would warrant diplomatic envoys to be used in a sort of offensive manner yet still be peaceful enough to warrant a low priority on the "kill ship" list.  Its a fine line to walk, but I trust the dev team to come up with something excellent. 

After all, diplomacy isn't always about PEACE.  Case and point being diplomacy between japan and the US before the start of the war in the pacific.

 As it stands I feel that diplomacy still needs work to feel complete.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Yes this change confused me as well.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

The other problem is that it takes longer to get the pacts now because relationship needs to increase from both sides and it starts out at zero and not 10.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Whip, it starts out at 10 for locked teams, 0 for unlocked.  It's always been like that.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Howdidudothat, reply 8
Whip, it starts out at 10 for locked teams, 0 for unlocked.  It's always been like that.
End of Howdidudothat's quote

Ah.  I thought the last patch set it to zero for both locked and unlocked.  Guess I haven't paid much attention to the diplomatic aspects in locked team games since the patch.  I do think that it's an improvement for unlocked because it decreases the chance of getting backstabbed since it's now an investment for both sides.