Ideas for a future Sins update/expansion - more tactical orders

from Sins Forums

Hello,

 

was reading up on what to look forward to in the new expansion, and having a think about what I like about Sins. Mainly, teh lack of mirco managing, and the ability to play strategically with ongoing battles on several fronts. It makes the game feel pretty epic. And i like that you can happily leave your fleets to get on with a fight while you try and muster reenforcements, or a counter-attack etc.

One way to improve combat, without ruining this balance might be to add in the ability to queue up tactical orders before a ship jumps into combat. Like in Gratuitous Space Battles, or Dominions3. Such as "protect captiral ships at all cost" or "take out enemy space station" or "nuke enemy planet and then retreat." Potentially, it would be interesting to experiment with removing player control entirely from battles. (I doubt it would work in but I'd be interested to try it as an option). So that way, scouting and planning ahead would be essential.

 

Thoughts?

21,812 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

was reading up on what to look forward to in the new expansion, and having a think about what I like about Sins. Mainly, teh lack of mirco managing...
End of quote

I take it you've never countered LRF with a flak pack before? :D

One way to improve combat, without ruining this balance might be to add in the ability to queue up tactical orders before a ship jumps into combat. Like in Gratuitous Space Battles, or Dominions3. Such as "protect captiral ships at all cost" or "take out enemy space station" or "nuke enemy planet and then retreat." Potentially, it would be interesting to experiment with removing player control entirely from battles. (I doubt it would work in but I'd be interested to try it as an option). So that way, scouting and planning ahead would be essential.

Thoughts?
End of quote

If you're interested in taking out a choice target or two, you could just select the ships you want and then order them to attack the target, and then shift-move retreat back to your planet.

(Holding shift queues orders - you can do exactly what you're wanting with the existing game)

A problem though is that "protect captiral ships at all cost" is a bit vague. When fleets are of a decent size, there isn't much your own fleet can do to protect its own ships, other than to fire at the enemy fleet and hope you kill enough of the enemy's frigates such that they'll lose overall firepower faster. Hold position / Auto-attack will often be the best method, at least if fleets aren't moving.

Your only real way to "protect" your capital ships (other than of course having repair cruisers and Shield Projection and hull/armor/shield research) is to manually retreat them when they get damaged enough.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

oh, I know it's possible to do with the current system. I just thought it could be built upon, without adding to the need for the player to babysit all his/her fleets.

Maybe the ongoing Dom3 game that I'm involved in is clouding my judgement. But I do quite like that system (in theory at least, Dom3 doesn't have the best implementation). having to plan ahead and second guess your opponenet on a tactical level... coming up with a plan before you send your ship in to the enemies homeworld. Adding in communication fog of war stuff... imperfect information, etc. 

 

And , I'm sure there are case in the game that you can get a big payback from MMing. but compared to most other RTSs that I've played, it's still a lot less.

 

 

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

If you're playing against a halfway decent opponent (a human, that is), you should never have a plan set in place when you warp your fleet in... the enemy will probably be constantly reissuing orders and changing current ship/structure build queues in an attempt to gain the advantage, and it's in your interest to do the same.

Quoting riadsala, reply 2
having to plan ahead and second guess your opponenet on a tactical level
End of riadsala's quote

Second-guessing opponents happens all the time on ICO (the Sins multiplayer server), and players who don't plan ahead quickly find their homeworld overrun.

The thing is that it's in each players' interest to think and develop new plans on the fly in order to react to what their opponent is doing, rather than to program in a set plan in and execute it, because a good opponent will likely see where your plan is going and begin to effectively counter it.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting riadsala, reply 2
And , I'm sure there are case in the game that you can get a big payback from MMing. but compared to most other RTSs that I've played, it's still a lot less.
End of riadsala's quote

If you micromanage flak, they can often be 3-4 times as effective as they are when you don't micromanage.

Micromanaging Subverters, Overseers, and Subjugators can also have incredibly high MM-return-rates. Microing scouts can also be quite useful, as can microing Illuminators (3 beams). But the more general plain combat frigates with only one forward weapon bank don't benefit that much from MM.

(unless you're playing against an Advent opponent with Deceptive Illusion)

Bottom line is that micromanagement is extremely useful in Sins. It takes a lot of practice to understand it, though, and those who play only against the AI will miss out on most of this.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Good micro in Sins is the difference between victory and defeat.  It's all about position and tactics, trying to move individual units to mitigate enemy damage output and maximize your own.  Most units are forward shooters and have sluggish turn speeds.  Just because the game moves in slow motion doesn't mean there isn't micromanagement.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

If you only play against AI (a retarded opponent) then tactics might not play much of a role in your game, but it's a big part of the real Sins game, which is online multiplayer PvP without AIs.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 5
Good micro in Sins is the difference between victory and defeat.  It's all about position and tactics, trying to move individual units to mitigate enemy damage output and maximize your own.  Most units are forward shooters and have sluggish turn speeds.  Just because the game moves in slow motion doesn't mean there isn't micromanagement.
End of Darvin3's quote

To be honest, that is why I love playing against AI.

Don't have to micro, mass click, or figure out the best way to beat AI. Of course, I am the type of guy who prefer a massive 100+ ship fights (not total, per side). I modded all of my ships to attach with fighter (ya even the capitals goes fighter) and with capital ship explosions, I can tell you it lags, but it is very pretty.