So diplomacy is confusing... Also the security tree

from Sins Forums

After playing it against an AI I got the jist of alot of it, I got the envoys to improve my relationship, I sent out missions, I did the research upgrades, I even got the one where the racial inclination was improved. I had a relationship of about 8.0 with the AI and they STILL wouldn't even open trade with me.

 

Am I missing something I just couldent seem to improve MY relationship with the enemy. I offered missions for them to send me resources. And thats all I could do, it seemed impossible to improve my relationship towards them. Does anyone else have this issue?

 

Also on a side note does anyone feel as though the Augment Defense Grid(advent), Hardened Cities(advent), and Phase Jump Inhibs(For the Advent/Vasari) should be moved to each races Defense tree? It just seems like they fit there. I just think it would make the Secruity tree feel a bit more... filled?

14,848 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

After playing it against an AI I got the jist of alot of it, I got the envoys to improve my relationship, I sent out missions, I did the research upgrades, I even got the one where the racial inclination was improved. I had a relationship of about 8.0 with the AI and they STILL wouldn't even open trade with me.



Am I missing something I just couldent seem to improve MY relationship with the enemy. I offered missions for them to send me resources. And thats all I could do, it seemed impossible to improve my relationship towards them. Does anyone else have this issue?
End of quote

I have never had trouble with them jumping to curry favor with me. Odd. Not sure how to manipulate that.

Also on a side note does anyone feel as though the Augment Defense Grid(advent), Hardened Cities(advent), and Phase Jump Inhibs(For the Advent/Vasari) should be moved to each races Defense tree? It just seems like they fit there. I just think it would make the Secruity tree feel a bit more... filled?
End of quote

Agreed

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

If you really are trying to get into pacts and stuff, I'd recommend playing with locked teams, that'll "solve" your problem...if you really really want to play FFA though, I don't know what to say beyond doing everything that you did...what difficultly are you playing on, just out of curiosity?  That may or may not have something to do with it...

As for moving techs to the defense tree, I'm considering moving them and others in my own mod, so you aren't alone in that thinking...

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I put them on easy difficulty. That may have been the problem as I dont believe he sent envoys

 

At least people agree with me!

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

The reason Advent hardened defenses, phase jump inhibitors, and augmented defense grid were not moved to the defense tree is because they require Harmony labs instead of Hostility labs.  The Advent harmony tree is notoriously sparse, with very few worthwhile techs.  There simply isn't a good case to transfer things out of the Harmony tech tree, which is why these techs remained where they were.  I don't know why this wasn't done for Vasari PJIs, though.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 4
There simply isn't a good case to transfer things out of the Harmony tech tree, which is why these techs remained where they were. 
End of Darvin3's quote

If we're talking about vanilla sins, I agree completely...but the harmony tree needs a lot of improvement regardless of whether those techs are there or not, and if the harmony tree is already modded (in theory at least) to be pretty good in its own right, then I don't have a problem moving those techs to the security tree...

On the assumption that the harmony tree is significantly improved, I wouldn't want "military" oriented techs tying up the harmony research que...

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 3
I put them on easy difficulty. That may have been the problem as I dont believe he sent envoys
End of MayallCommunion's quote

That would definitely be the problem...an easy AI probably doesn't have the economy to support envoys or some of the diplomacy techs...usually, any AI below unfair is going to be a complete crap shoot on whether they can utilize a game mechanic or not...

That's not to say you shouldn't play on easy...it's just that the AI behaves very differently on different difficulty levels and if they aren't bringing envoys to you then they can't improve their relationship with you very much...not much you can do about it other than play on a harder difficulty where the AI (for all intents and purposes) has infinite resources....

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I believe currently 6 envoys (each on a seperate 'soon to be ally planet') will be enough to get you up to 20 diplo rating.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting boshimi336, reply 7
I believe currently 6 envoys (each on a seperate 'soon to be ally planet') will be enough to get you up to 20 diplo rating.
End of boshimi336's quote

Should be 5 if you already start on locked teams and have a 10 rating. Each envoy can give a max of +2 relations bonus.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

If it makes you feel any better Boshimi, it used to be 6 back when the max bonus was +1.5 per planet....

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 5



Quoting Darvin3,
reply 4
There simply isn't a good case to transfer things out of the Harmony tech tree, which is why these techs remained where they were. 


If we're talking about vanilla sins, I agree completely...but the harmony tree needs a lot of improvement regardless of whether those techs are there or not, and if the harmony tree is already modded (in theory at least) to be pretty good in its own right, then I don't have a problem moving those techs to the security tree...

On the assumption that the harmony tree is significantly improved, I wouldn't want "military" oriented techs tying up the harmony research que...
End of Seleuceia's quote

 

This was my problem with it as well, I dont like military research showing up in the Harmony Tech. Also thanks for the info about the Envoys everyone!

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

but the harmony tree needs a lot of improvement regardless of whether those techs are there or not, and if the harmony tree is already modded (in theory at least) to be pretty good in its own right, then I don't have a problem moving those techs to the security tree...
End of quote

But the harmony tree has not received new content to make it more appealing.  The amount of content it would need to receive to overcome this issue would actually be quite substantial.  Since the opportunity was missed in Diplomacy to flesh it out, I really don't think that's ever going to happen in Sins 1. 

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

I understand what you are saying, but I really dont think the harmony tree would miss those 3 upgrades to be honest. It serves its purpose but I dont think anyone upgrades the Harmony tree for the Hardened Cities upgrade.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 11
But the harmony tree has not received new content to make it more appealing.
End of Darvin3's quote

No it has not, and a mod is not likely to add new content, merely change what's already there...

That being said, certain techs (such as the higher end metal/crystal extraction increases) are pretty uneconomical for everyone...boosting or improving those would make civil labs more useful for all three factions...for Advent in particular, having a better resource focus and a better Allure of the Unity would make that 7th and 8th lab at least have some purpose...

Buffing the culture techs in general (such as an increase to max allegiance) and/or to the deliverance engine would also help the Advent civilian tree...

It would require a lot of changes and modding, but I do believe it is possible to make the harmony tree at least useful without the addition of new content...the Advent civil tree probably will never compare to the TEC's or Vasari's without new content, especially if improvements to the Advent harmony tree are "blanket" improvements that help everyone...but being useful is a pretty good improvement from what we have, and honestly I'm okay with Advent having a weaker civil tree if they make up for it elsewhere...