[.91 Suggestion] mortal champions

from Elemental Forums

I noticed that champions rest for a while after they've been defeated like the sovereign does. My suggestion is to kill them off if they fall in combat. 

Spells could be used to resurrect / reanimate them, so they're not a complete loss. The result of this would be that they increase slightly in value: I currently don't mind too much about throwing champions into a fight of attrition, reducing an enemy's numbers, so my sovereign can move in afterwards for the final blow. I'd personally prefer it if I thought twice about doing so - that their sacrifice actually meant something. 

Effect on the economy:

1. It would encourage me to buff my champions to the max, introducing another good mana sink into the magic economy.

2. It would also mean that their items would be lost with them, which is a good reason to spend some gold to buy more. 

3. Units could be raised (mana) instead of bought (gold) in a pinch.

Effect on the magic system:

Life and Death domains would get some iconic death-defying spells in their repertoire.

Edit: Quoting Malsqueak

just also have a general magic "Summon hero" spell. That way you can at least have more heroes if they die. You only get them back if you run life or death [magic].
End of quote

Edit: Quoting Ausland

It could be a setting at the start of a new game whether to allow champions to get killed.
End of quote

28,654 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree with this for several reasons.

 

It helps offset how powerful champions are.

 

It gives us an excuse to have more spells (more magic, YAY!) to bring them back. Life for resurrection and Death for UNDEAD CHAMPIONS!

 

Plus all above listed reasons.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I think if this *SHOULD* be done, they should be added to some medical ward or mausoleum, though I am not sure it would fit the game at the moment, it would make for an EXTREMELY hardcore game, and I am not sure this is the current aim. Personally It would make it a save/load heavy game for me since the death toll would be too heavy, I actually like the wounding mechanics, while meaby the heroes should be sent home to heal after each wound, or just require a turn or  2 to take a breather...

I am not sure why you would want to kill them of right away, especially the sovereign, and to my note this would not increase the value, but in the contrary decrease it, due to players being forced to extremely care-full play around champions, lest they wanna lose them.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Also, if such resurrection magic of any kind existed, you are basically forcing players into the spheres of which they exist, unless they again want to be completely unable to regain they're source of high powered units. No matter how you balance it unless everyone gets the resurrection spell, and then its all quite pointless to me to change the mechanic.

I am not a fan of "You MUST have this spell to compete in the game"

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kongdej, reply 3
Also, if such resurrection magic of any kind existed, you are basically forcing players into the spheres of which they exist, unless they again want to be completely unable to regain they're source of high powered units. No matter how you balance it unless everyone gets the resurrection spell, and then its all quite pointless to me to change the mechanic.

I am not a fan of "You MUST have this spell to compete in the game"

Sincerely
~ Kongdej
End of Kongdej's quote

 

Nah, just also have a general magic "Summon hero" spell. That way you can at least have more heroes if they die. You only get them back if you run life or death.

 

PLUS. just hire someone with life magic, level them up and camp them in your capitol. It's not like your sov has to have it.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top


If champions died (permanent) and Sovs got sent home for 20+ turns on defeat I like it.  I disagree with Kongdeg that this would be a 'you must have to win' for resurrect/animate dead... I would prefer they stay dead all the same though (no resurrect).  Additionally if other champions joined/offered to join later in the game for a cost of gold & resources and/or a quest outcome that would be much more preferable to me.  I liked the After the War mod that gave a hero at the end of some dungeon levels as reward.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top


It would also give me a reason to build normal units early on.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Malsqueek, reply 4


Nah, just also have a general magic "Summon hero" spell. That way you can at least have more heroes if they die. You only get them back if you run life or death.

 

PLUS. just hire someone with life magic, level them up and camp them in your capitol. It's not like your sov has to have it.
End of Malsqueek's quote

That might do, just remember there are currently limited xp in the world :P... no way of farming it, so it would be hard to balance a summon hero to a raise dead hero spell... (summoning a level 1 hero compared to raising a level 18 hero), or the other way around if summon champion gets too high you can summon a lvl 12 hero while your sovereign just reached level 6 by forcing your tech in that direction.

"just hire someone with life magic"... thats rather luck dependant then :P.
Well you just want it that way, I just like the wounding system, thats it I guess :)

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting cparkin01, reply 6

It would also give me a reason to build normal units early on.
End of cparkin01's quote

Thats just a matter of monster compared to hero balance I think, think they are going to take down hero power a notch in 0.92
Heroes "practically die" when they sustain enough injuries. Well except there is NO upkeep cost on heroes whatsoever.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

 

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

I would not like to play with this suggestion and that's how I feel about it.   Since my heroes get spanked and penalized already,  losing them would be even more of a setback and I'd start hating the game.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top


I rare and don't use hero very much for battle unless they help city or make a gold but for battle, rare I taken my hero due injuries that can't be heal unless you are lucky find a potian from rare quest, never happan to me, but that's what someone told me.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

It could be a setting at the start of a new game whether to allow champions to get killed.

 

But its low on my priority list.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Humility, reply 10

I rare and don't use hero very much for battle unless they help city or make a gold but for battle, rare I taken my hero due injuries that can't be heal unless you are lucky find a potian from rare quest, never happan to me, but that's what someone told me.
End of Humility's quote

I think I find one of those potions per game.. so its not that often.
they come in the first couple of qquests, rather simple...
That said, you should try to use your heroes, get them behind some archers and march around to level them up.
I have great use of heroes, whenever I dont by mistake run into something stupid, like a big green dragon!!

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

This has been discussed previously.

 

IIRC the adverse-combat-outcome was added as a result of champions having no penalty from being defeated in combat (broken nose, concussion, etc).  And under the current system champions may still be slain, it just doesn't happen frequently.

 

Personally, I like the present system.  However, I wouldn't be averse to a a toggle under the game options screen (map size, difficulty, victory conditions, etc) of "Mortal Champions" (mouseover: "Champions are slain when defeated in combat").

 

cheers,

 

-tid242

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Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top
Quoting tid242, reply 13

Personally, I like the present system.  However, I wouldn't be averse to a a toggle under the game options screen (map size, difficulty, victory conditions, etc) of "Mortal Champions" (mouseover: "Champions are slain when defeated in combat").

 

End of tid242's quote

 

I fully agree with tid242 on the subject, the injury system is a pretty good compromise between death on the one side and little to no penalty on the other. (If you have most of your heros in hospital, you loose a lot of turns, before you are fully operational again.)

Admittedly my game is hugely hero-centric which would only change if heroes wouldn't be such a cost-effective answer to the question "What troops to use"?" while the cities do the income and research enhancements.