AI feature I want in GalCiv3

I don't know if this is feasible, but I believe it would be- and might solve one of the issues with Stardock AI, which is that the AI has tendencies based on Brad which can make it predictable.

 

Adaptive AI.  I want an AI that will sometimes (but not always, as that would be predictable as well) know your tendencies from previous games (maybe just count won games), and adjust based on that.  If you're a rusher, it will prepare to be rushed- if you econ- it will try to disrupt that, etc.

 

 

109,877 views 54 replies
Reply #1 Top

I think something like that is planned. At least this part from the FAQ gives me that impression:

Q: Will the game require a network connection to play?
A: No. However, some of the AI learning mechanisms will require access to the Metaverse in order to perform analysis on player strategies. This will be optional and able to be disabled by the player but does require an Internet connection.

 

 

Reply #2 Top

One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining.  Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it.  I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player. 

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining.  Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it.  I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player. 
End of Frogboy's quote

 

I'm going to be very much interested in seeing this in action.  Silently mouthed 'wow' to myself as I read this.  Curious question, but how would difficulty settings affect the information the AI is pulling from other players?

Reply #4 Top

Well I think this would be for a hard level.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining.  Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it.  I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player.

End of Frogboy's quote

A million times This!

On higher difficulties, when the AI can spam at low costs, once through the initial challenge I tend to find the fun factor wears off quickly, and normally move onto another game.  However, basing an AI on top human players, and adapting the AI over time ... as a casual player (i.e. probably a couple of hours per week) what fun this would create if implemented well.  I would likely be lost in this for years.

 

Reply #6 Top

How about neural network based AI? Dont program it, let it evolve on its own!  :thumbsup:  

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining.  Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it.  I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player. 
End of Frogboy's quote

I see it coming: just playing on dumb mode because on every other level, the AI gets to tricky for me :sick:

Reply #8 Top

Quoting yarodin, reply 7




I see it coming: just playing on dumb mode because on every other level, the AI gets to tricky for me
End of yarodin's quote

 

I would love this, really, to have an AI that can beat me on anything except the easiest of difficulty levels would be so cool.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting ShotmanMaslo, reply 6

How about neural network based AI? Dont program it, let it evolve on its own!   
End of ShotmanMaslo's quote

I would like to see a combination of both ideas. I do think this should at least be above tough level.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining.  Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it.  I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player. 
End of Frogboy's quote

 

That sounds really neat, and is a great feature as well. 

 

What I'm really looking for though, is a way to ensure that the AI will sometimes surprise me once I've played this game for a long time.

 

Reply #11 Top

What a lot of strategy games do is have 3 tiers of AI difficulty - Easy, Normal, and Advanced. GalCiv has something like 12 different levels. I would like to see GalCiv 3 try something different. There will only be one level of AI but there will be two different game modes - training and normal (or standard). The normal/standard AI will be playing at the highest level without resorting to cheating. The training mode AI will be exactly the same as normal but the game will give lots of help to the player. The game will provide suggestions and explanations on what to build, where to explore, where to attack, etc. As the name implies, this mode helps guide a new player into the game. I don't think playing against an easy AI teaches you how to properly play the game. So let's just drop it. For the more advanced players who want a challenge, the normal game could have some parameters that you can change such as how much money and/or colony ships a civilization starts out.

Reply #12 Top

Will some features of singleplayer be disabled for multiplayer?

Reply #13 Top

Quoting SirKs, reply 3


Quoting Frogboy, reply 2
One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining.  Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it.  I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player. 

 

I'm going to be very much interested in seeing this in action.  Silently mouthed 'wow' to myself as I read this.  Curious question, but how would difficulty settings affect the information the AI is pulling from other players?
End of SirKs's quote

It wouldn't. 

I am penalizing the dumber AIs by giving them less stuff.

In GalCiv II, the AI played dumber on lower levels. But we had some people, mainly reviewers, presume that the AI was dumb at higher levels but got more stuff so we're moving away from that to just having resources be the big difference.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13
I am penalizing the dumber AIs by giving them less stuff.
End of Frogboy's quote

This is a significant change from stardocks age old philosophy of a non 'cheating' ai except at extreme difficulties.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting glupor, reply 14

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13I am penalizing the dumber AIs by giving them less stuff.

This is a significant change from stardocks age old philosophy of a non 'cheating' ai except at extreme difficulties.
End of glupor's quote

I think he means more in terms of multipliers on things like economy, ship strength, etc. On "Moron", the AI will be fully functional but only get maybe 10% of the benefits from such things. A planet under their control may only make a quarter as much in taxes as one of yours, and a stock market will only improve that 2.5% instead of 25%. Even the smartest AI won't do too well if they can't afford to build anything.

At the other end, "Suicidal" AIs might get 10x the standard benefits. A single stock market improves that planet's economy by 250%, not 25%, so the AI can afford to spam more ships, and those ships will be much better because the AI can devote huge sums of money to research, and that money converts to techs faster than it does for you (their lab buildings produce 40 tech points; the same building for you makes 4).

That's not "cheating" the same way having the AI just magically materialize ships at the edge of the map might be (which is how some games give their highest difficulty a bonus). The AI is still following the same mechanics as the player, so the player can use the same type of tactics against the AI as would work against a human opponent. The AI can just afford to do everything bigger and faster than you, but it can still be outplayed if the human is good enough.

Note: numbers pulled out of nowhere for illustration purposes.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13


Quoting SirKs, reply 3

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2
One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining.  Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it.  I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player. 

 

I'm going to be very much interested in seeing this in action.  Silently mouthed 'wow' to myself as I read this.  Curious question, but how would difficulty settings affect the information the AI is pulling from other players?

It wouldn't. 

I am penalizing the dumber AIs by giving them less stuff.

In GalCiv II, the AI played dumber on lower levels. But we had some people, mainly reviewers, presume that the AI was dumb at higher levels but got more stuff so we're moving away from that to just having resources be the big difference.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

This seems to be like a very good idea. AI should play at its best all the time. And just by limiting its resources will help it to not go over the top on the player. But at the same time, it will make logical and clever decisions. People should learn to think and play well, there is so many games holding your hand, that sometimes it feels like playing interactive movie or tutorial all the time.

Reply #17 Top

After tough I would like to see the Ai play harder instead of getting a better economy by default instead of you on the the higher levels with advanced algorithms. Other wise it feels like the game is cheating instead of getting harder.

Reply #18 Top

I think the possibility of giving the AI resource bonuses on higher difficulties is still a good idea, but it should be optional - just have a box you can check (in addition to difficulty setting).

Reply #19 Top

Quoting michaelwhittaker, reply 17

After tough I would like to see the Ai play harder instead of getting a better economy by default instead of you on the the higher levels with advanced algorithms. Other wise it feels like the game is cheating instead of getting harder.
End of michaelwhittaker's quote


I'm not sure why you say that. In GalCiv 2, the tough difficulty is the difficulty where all AI algorithms are used. The AI isn't watered down (programed to make bad decisions) any more. It litterally can't play better because the algorithms required to do so don't (yet) exist. To be a greater challenge, the AIs literally needs to cheat on all difficulty levels beyond that.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting ShotmanMaslo, reply 18

I think the possibility of giving the AI resource bonuses on higher difficulties is still a good idea, but it should be optional - just have a box you can check (in addition to difficulty setting).
End of ShotmanMaslo's quote

That's what higher difficulties are, by definition. Past the difficulty where the AI is playing as well as it can, any difficulty above that has to cheat or it doesn't exist.

Reply #21 Top

the AI doesn't need to cheat anywhere near as much as it does

 

it only does that because the AI is bad and is so far away from competent that it uses stuff like 100% bonuses on everything just to compete with decent humans who are beginning the game

Reply #22 Top

Well, maybe the confusion could be reduced by when choosing the difficulty, it showed the AI rating and bonuses. You know, show that the AI was at 70% full power, and 50% normal abilities, while very hard difficulties might show AI 100% and abilities at 120%. Heck, if we are talking this far then why allow a player to adjust both variables independently. Lets say let the player do something like set an AI to 50% and bonuses to 400%.

Reply #23 Top

Quoting DivineWrath, reply 22
Well, maybe the confusion could be reduced by when choosing the difficulty, it showed the AI rating and bonuses. You know, show that the AI was at 70% full power, and 50% normal abilities, while very hard difficulties might show AI 100% and abilities at 120%. Heck, if we are talking this far then why allow a player to adjust both variables independently. Lets say let the player do something like set an AI to 50% and bonuses to 400%.
End of DivineWrath's quote

 

 

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13
It wouldn't.

I am penalizing the dumber AIs by giving them less stuff.

In GalCiv II, the AI played dumber on lower levels. But we had some people, mainly reviewers, presume that the AI was dumb at higher levels but got more stuff so we're moving away from that to just having resources be the big difference.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

essentially the AI will always be at 100% but recieve more/less and have lower/greater cost based on difficulty

Reply #24 Top

Quoting glupor, reply 14


Quoting Frogboy, reply 13I am penalizing the dumber AIs by giving them less stuff.

This is a significant change from stardocks age old philosophy of a non 'cheating' ai except at extreme difficulties.
End of glupor's quote

Not really other than in the sense that the AI is being cheated against (i.e. getting less stuff).

I'll be somewhat surprised if people are able to beat the AI playing its best game.  This isn't like Elemental where there's magic and champions and such. This is raw strategy vs. strategy and humans just aren't that good at it compared to a modern computer.

My main concern will be making sure it's communicated clearly to players how they lost otherwise (And mark my words) you're going to have endless threads about the AI "cheating". 

Reply #25 Top

Quoting DivineWrath, reply 19


Quoting michaelwhittaker, reply 17
  I'm not sure why you say that. In GalCiv 2, the tough difficulty is the difficulty where all AI algorithms are used. The AI isn't watered down (programed to make bad decisions) any more. It litterally can't play better because the algorithms required to do so don't (yet) exist. To be a greater challenge, the AIs literally needs to cheat on all difficulty levels beyond that.
End of DivineWrath's quote

The reason I say that is because that would be a better higher difficulty is a smarter player instead of your opponent getting stuff and not you. I will probably play only on tough, so noone can cheat against each other; because, the computer can't do better without cheating. I am wondering how good I can do against you guys looking forward to playing against you guys. I hope you guys are willing to do the same thing.  Frogboy is right this won't cut down on the cheating threads.