MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

An AI that (optionally) doesn't forget your betrayals in past games

AI with OOC dialogue?

So, I was sort of toying with the idea that Brad planted in my head way way back, about an AI which remembers how you played last game and doesn't just forget about your misdeeds in previous games. But on the other hand, doesn't forget about some classic turning points in previous games.

So let's say that you play your first game against an AI called, well let's say Steve. Steve takes note of your diplomatic dealings in the first game, and decides that you're a pretty honourable player.

Next game, though, you're playing as the Drengin and you're just out to enslave the galaxy, including Steve's empire. Steve isn't too thrilled about that:

"Look, I can be more use to you as a collaborator. Let's share the glory, okay?"

- "Hmm. A tempting offer. If I can trust you, that is."

- "Nope. Don't take this personally. I'm just playing the role that I've been given."

- "All right then. But don't tell anyone else about this. It'll be our little secret."

The next game, things aren't going so well for you. Depending on your past dealings with Steve, he might open with any of the following:

"Look, I've proved that I can be trusted. Let me help you out."

"So, it seems that the tables have turned. Don't take it personally, but I think I'll just sit back and watch while your empire is crushed."

"You proved that you are as good as your word. So I'll let you help me rid the galaxy of the rabble. Deal?"

The thing is, this sort of breaks the immersion a little bit. You're no longer simply dealing with an in-character emperor, but the AI player pulling their strings. Which is why I suggested in the title that it'd be optional. You could turn it off when you want to try a different play style, and turn it back on when you want to have Steve judging your actions and trustworthiness like a real player would. Except, Steve doesn't need to take breaks, nor does he drop connection and pop back in five minutes later profusely apologising for the disruption. He's always there when you need a buddy for what you do every night - try to take over the galaxy!

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Lucky_Jack

Join Date 01/2002

+62

I think having the AI remember your behavior from past games violates the idea of a new game being a clean slate.

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Larsenex

Join Date 04/2009

+212

Marvin, this is a terrific idea. However what would be needed is if it was a separate AI that grew. What i mean is its 'outside' the personalities of the current Factions we play against.

Instead its considered an AI NPC. You can turn him on and he will either be player assigned or randomly assigned one of the other ai factions yoiu play against. If he pulls Altarian our 'better-than-average' AI will use the Altarian flavors as guidelines to how it behaves but learns and should have api hooks to allow it to deviate (alot) to do what it needs to to win.

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androshalforc

Join Date 03/2007

+62

i like the idea but would propose a change if possible have the ai remember past games as a specific race rather then just as me
what i mean is if im playing the drengin have him judge me by how i played the drengin in previous games and not how i played terrains in my previous games

this would mitigate that breaking of immersion since the ai is now judging you by how you perceive that race

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Dear lord, that violates everything a new game should be. In the same game I want to play as a bastardly backstabbing bastard and on an another occasion I want my words to mean something.

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Dear lord, does anyone actually bother to read the part where you can toggle this on and off?

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Lucky_Jack

Join Date 01/2002

+62

Quoting MarvinKosh,

reply 5

Dear lord, does anyone actually bother to read the part where you can toggle this on and off?

Sorry, I missed the "optional" bit, but I would suggest that the default be "off". If you want it you should have to opt in.

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Gilmoy

Join Date 12/2009

+41

Actually, this could be elegantly handled by adding one "inter-game" element: a Persona. Physically, it's just another kind of saved profile.

A Persona persists across many games.
It acts like a database / repository / record of your karma, behaviors, actions, deeds, etc. Whatever you want a future AI to "know" about your tendencies based on past history you've actually done will be saved here, in whatever format.
On new game, you can choose a Persona you already saved, or use the default "New Persona" (which creates a blank slate).
On end of game, you can choose "Save as Persona", or use the default "flush this history".

Then you could role-play many different personas (one at a time), and build up a whole library of totally different roles. Instead of "disabling" this feature, you just play with a blank Persona every time. (To really "disable" the feature, you could set it to "Blank Persona, Do Not Save It, Do Not Ask Me About Saving It, and Auto-Select This Choice Forever" )

Then the AI code would need to be extended with something like a "persona compiler", which slurps in a Persona file and computes some kind of vector-of-modifications to the AI's behavior for this game. Iterate over all AIs (or maybe only when they first contact you).

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Thecw

Join Date 08/2012

+84

While i am not opposed to the general (optional) idea, i would probably close to never use it. I can see the value for hard-core-role-playing would-be-emperors. If implemented i might even try it just for fun sake.

Quoting Gilmoy,

reply 7

On new game, you can choose a Persona you already saved, or use the default "New Persona" (which creates a blank slate).

My problem with this when i start a game i really have no idea of how i am going to play that game. I tend to adapt to the situation.

Furthermore in a game i might actually be an unshakeable generous ally to one AI, while at the same time be a raving dishonorable oath-breaking violent maniac toward another AI, and totally neutral against a third AI. Should the game then keep persona information about how i play as the current race interacting with every other race in the game? This would lead to a set of factorial (n! where n is the number of races in the current game) number of personas the game needs to keep track of. And how can i then at the start of the next game tell the game which set of my personas i am going to play?

I can't see an elegant solution to these problems with personas.

Even if i try to visualise it as multi behavioural state graph with weighted edges (each consisting of a measurable player action), i have trouble clearly defining what would constitute a determinable state and how to interpret a given player action.

Something simple like 'After declaring an alliance, the player actually attacked me 10% of the time' would result in a graph with a node stating 'Player declared alliance' connected by a .1 weighted edge to a node 'Player attacking me' and by a .9 weighted edge to another node 'Player does not attack me'. But this is extremely simple. What actions should be tracked and how big should the scope of association be? Should something like 'The player build a military star base on his border and 70 turns later he declares war on me while we have an alliance' result in an association of nodes?

I am afraid that the more detailed and the greater the scope of things being tracked will lead to exponential amounts of data, and therefor to exponential graph size and complexity. I belief that to have the game competently interpret your past behaviour, and project a relevant response plan based on that, would - if possible at all - cripple the game performance.

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DARCA1213

Join Date 01/2014

+106

I say no to this.

I say yes to this being optional, AI updates don't make great dlc. But they are needed throughout a games life cycle.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Diplomacy is not as significant as what kind of techs you research. How likely you are to declare war. How you build planets. How you build and use ships. This mingled in with diplomacy sounds like a good idea. How we deviate from the original idea. I meant the entire way you play and yes over the course of all your games until you turn this off. I probably will have this on for every game. Why don't you like a challenging ai.

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Quoting Lucky Jack,

reply 1

I think having the AI remember your behavior from past games violates the idea of a new game being a clean slate.

My thoughts exactly, but if it was optional for others why not. Personally I would never have interest but to each their own. I do think money/resources could be spent developing other game features personally.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

I think an adaptive an from the computer and loaded from multiplayer is a good idea. This should probably be an option that is by default not on. That you have a option to reset this so you would have to save the new and default air. I would have this on atall times. Occasionally esettings

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still broke

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Posted some years ago by I think Frogboy:

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

I think the AI should remember how you play from game to game, and then try to counter it sometimes, but not always.

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Quoting Glostakarov,

reply 14

Posted some years ago by I think Frogboy:

Reduced 55%

Original 1024 x 795

WOW

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Not so much it will react to you based on the previous game but will be prepared when you respond. This is a little different than what I talk about in other posts.

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I didn't really like this idea much until the screenshot was posted. I would really enjoy having conversations like this with the AI and believe it would add a very unique and special feeling to GalCiv. Optional "persona" system of course. I play races differently.

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I think for me this would make my games very boring after awhile. I generally tend to be honourable in my games so eventually all the races would treat me as if I could be trusted, and there would be no surprises anymore. Each game would end up playing out like all the ones before it diplomatically. Ditto if you played as a backstabber. All your games would end up with the other races always having the same attitude towards you.

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DARCA1213

Join Date 01/2014

+106

If I dial 1-800 Flowers will someone tell me I can't be trusted and refuse my purchase?

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