The Power of Starbase Spam

I'm not sure how many people have experimented with heavy starbase usage, but it can get VERY powerful.  Take a look at my civilization capital:

It's getting bonuses from EIGHT starbases, giving it a 400% bonus to manufacturing, research AND wealth.  It's also in a position to get a +200% bonus to its trade-route income.  With that level of bonuses, there's little reason to build anything but farms!

Now look at my core space:

Economic starbases everywhere!  Each world is receiving bonuses from between 5 and 8 starbases, so they're all getting somewhere between +250% and +400% to all categories.  People have talked about how farms are OP, and I don't think they were even doing this strategy!

 

Let's look at payoff time.  Production-wise, lets say a constructor costs 40 production.  That's slightly less than the cost of a Small hull with a Constructor module and no cost-reduction techs.  Later on, you can get Tiny constructors that only cost 19 production, but for now, I'll use 40.  With 25% manufacturing, and all of that going to Military Manufacturing, you'll be generating about 5 production points per 10 billion population.  Let's than say you build a starbase assisting 3 worlds with a total of 30 billion pop.

Building an econ starbase going up to Zero-G Scaling (the best you can get in the Age of Expansion) costs 4 constructors, or 160 production.  It gives a 15% production bonus to that 30 billion pop, generating an extra 15*0.15 = 2.25 production per turn.  This will pay for itself in 71 turns.  That goes down to 35 turns if you run 50% manufacturing

Later on, things get better.  Adding in Orbital Replicators and Interstellar Collectors costs another 3 constructors, bringing the total production cost up to 280.  But the bonus goes up to 50%, so now we're adding 15 * 0.5 = 7.5 production per turn, which pays for itself in 37 turns, or 14 at 50% manufacturing.

You may need to use the two range-increasing modules (Support Field Stabilization, and Exploration Extension) to give bonuses to the maximum number of worlds.  This would bring the starbase cost up to 400, changing the payoff time to 53 turns, or 27 at 50%.

Adding the research and wealth-boosting modules costs another 10 constructors, doubling the time needed to payoff the production cost, but keeping it reasonable.  And bear in mind: once you get the +20% storage needed to fit a Construction module on a tiny hull and get some manufacturing cost-reduction techs, the cost of a basic constructor will drop below 30.

 

However, there is another bottleneck: starbase construction cost.  Building a new starbase costs a number of credits equal to 100 times the number of active starbases you have.  So if you have 10 starbases, it'll cost 1100 credits to build another.  At 33% Wealth, you'll get 6.7 credits per 10 billion pop, so if a starbase gives a 50% bonus to a total of 30 billion pop, that's 10.5 extra credits per turn.  That'll take 105 turns to pay for the 11th starbase, and 210 turns for the 22nd.

Trade-route boosting modules improve things.  You can get a 25% boost to the trade income of all planets with a trade route in the starbase AoE, so if you boost four trade routes worth 50 credits each, you generate 50 extra credits per turn.  That'll pay for the 11th starbase in 18 turns and the 22nd in 36 (although the later trade techs with those starbase modules are expensive to acquire).  This is limited by the number of starbases you can get providing bonuses to your trade hub (around 8)

Yet, I've found that the slower monetary payoff of starbase is not too much of a factor, because they are a great money sink.  Once you get Tourism, you'll be inundated with cash, and building economic starbases lets you spend that cash for massive production and research bonuses.  I had no problems covering my main territory with starbases, and only ran into cash-flow problems once I started throwing down a highway of military starbases with movement-cost reducers.

So, looking at the big picture: I like the challenge of positioning starbases to maximize the number of planets recieving bonuses, but I don't like how this feels like the "best" strategy.  Spamming farms on your worlds, covering your space in economic starbases to give them bonuses, and using your surplus wealth to keep building starbases feels obviously superior.  You might be able to go from +300% production to +400% on a world by building a power plant, but you're sacrificing 8 billon population that would be recieving +300% to production, research AND wealth.  As soon as you get the basic Age of War production techs, the payoff time for this strategy drops below 20 turns if you commit, making it the clear choice as soon as you've colonized all available worlds.

Changing this to be one strategy among many rather than the be-all-end-all of strategies would require either nerfing starbase modules or altering economic buildings to provide some direct increases to production, research, or wealth.  With regards to starbase module nerfs, one good idea might be to increase the construction-point cost for late-stage modules - i.e. Orbital Replicators might cost 2 points, and Interstellar Collectors might cost 4.  This wouldn't affect the impact of starbases early on, but would reduce the speed at which they get out of control, making other options viable.

So, has anyone else played around with starbases?  What are your thoughts?

33,643 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top

Enjoy this while it's Beta :)  This is ultimately a balance issue, which will surely get fixed (or nerfed) by radical changes to the numbers.  e.g. real Tourism will almost certainly cease to be a Hakuna Matata panacea (and that will force everybody to actually think about money).

If you can pay for it, and you don't get conquered like a bug while you're waiting for the payoff, then you deserve it.  Remember the Zeroth Law of War: no strategy survives contact with the enemy.

Reply #2 Top

This issue, or one very similar to it, came up during the beta for GC2 and was eventually "fixed" by the game charging a progressive fee for each star base built after a progressively larger minimum (based on some specific research items being researched) by the time the game got released. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens in GC3.

Reply #3 Top

upper limit of starbases is actually 12 not sure if 13 will fit

intstructions are in the posts for the nov 7th dev stream

https://forums.galciv3.com/459175/page/1/#3505745

i currently have iridia doing about 500,000 production and need to figure out how to maximize that with economy

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Lucky, reply 2

This issue, or one very similar to it, came up during the beta for GC2 and was eventually "fixed" by the game charging a progressive fee for each star base built after a progressively larger minimum (based on some specific research items being researched) by the time the game got released. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens in GC3.
End of Lucky's quote

I mentioned in the OP that GC3 already has a progressive fee for each additional SB built - it's just not enough to slow down the snowball.  In general, if a strategy takes less than 20 turns to pay for itself, it will be difficult for an unprepared opponent to stop it: they have to research the needed military techs, build the necessary ships, and send them over to you, before your enhanced production allows you to defend against them.

Quoting androshalforc, reply 3

upper limit of starbases is actually 12 not sure if 13 will fit

intstructions are in the posts for the nov 7th dev stream

https://forums.galciv3.com/459175/page/1/#3505745

i currently have iridia doing about 500,000 production and need to figure out how to maximize that with economy
End of androshalforc's quote

I did make some sacrifices to how many starbases were boosting Altaria for the sake of giving better bonuses to my other worlds.  I'm curious how you went as high as 500K production though.  Do you have over 400 billion population?  A +600% bonus by itself would still require about 70K base production, so I think I'm missing something here (also, your dropbox pictures aren't loading for me).

Reply #5 Top

I think my pop is around 391

iridia after terraforming is class 40 so that helps. Not sure why dropbox isint loading

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Tohron, reply 4

I mentioned in the OP that GC3 already has a progressive fee for each additional SB built - it's just not enough to slow down the snowball. In general, if a strategy takes less than 20 turns to pay for itself, it will be difficult for an unprepared opponent to stop it: they have to research the needed military techs, build the necessary ships, and send them over to you, before your enhanced production allows you to defend against them.
End of Tohron's quote

I have yet to see a fee for building additional SBs, and in my current game have more than 20. That lead me to think that they have yet to implement this particular piece of balancing.

Also, balancing is traditionally scheduled for the final phase of a beta.

Reply #7 Top

I am not sure at what point they start charging for each additional starbase, but in every game I have played I have seen it. Starts getting expensive after a while. I think in the latest game I am playing the cost id over 1600 for the last one I built.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting androshalforc, reply 5

I think my pop is around 391

iridia after terraforming is class 40 so that helps. Not sure why dropbox isint loading
End of androshalforc's quote

 

Am I missing something with terraforming ? I thought you got about 5 or 6 new tiles only? how did you get to 40?

Reply #9 Top

Quoting twilight024, reply 8

Am I missing something with terraforming ? I thought you got about 5 or 6 new tiles only? how did you get to 40?
End of twilight024's quote

there are 6 terraforming improvements in the game

soil enchancement      1 salvageble tile

terraforming plant       1 decent tile

habitat improvement   1 lesser tile

resequencing station    1 almost useless tile

ultra terraformer         1 any tile

biosepheres               any salvagable tile

 

so the first five are supposed to be 1 use only and biospheres are supposed to be as many infinate uses but limited to "salvageable" tiles

there are a few bugs here first off the ultra terraformer does what the biosphere is supposed to do and the biosphere does what the ultra terraformer is supposed to do

so even though there backwards you're not getting away with anything.

the second issue is that the words salvageable and decent are mixed up  

 

so iridia starts as a quality 12 and has 24 salvageable quality tiles on it.

so you use soil enhancement for 1 then wait till you have biospheres (ultra terraformer) for 23 more tiles then the remaining techs for 4 more and the reclemation ideology bonus for one more all told that brings iridia to 41

Reply #10 Top

the wait is very important too, or you could waste 4 tiles that the ultra could be used for.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting androshalforc, reply 9

so the first five are supposed to be 1 use only and biospheres are supposed to be as many infinate uses but limited to "salvageable" tiles

there are a few bugs here first off the ultra terraformer does what the biosphere is supposed to do and the biosphere does what the ultra terraformer is supposed to do

so even though there backwards you're not getting away with anything.

the second issue is that the words salvageable and decent are mixed up  

 

so iridia starts as a quality 12 and has 24 salvageable quality tiles on it.

so you use soil enhancement for 1 then wait till you have biospheres (ultra terraformer) for 23 more tiles then the remaining techs for 4 more and the reclemation ideology bonus for one more all told that brings iridia to 41
End of androshalforc's quote

 

MMmm I not gotten more then an 33 class this way.!... Not that i`ve tried Iridia.

Reply #12 Top
Quoting Nastytang, reply 11


MMmm I not gotten more then an 33 class this way.!... Not that i`ve tried Iridia.

End of Nastytang's quote

iridia is a little OP for terraforming not only is 41 possible its all one centralized lump so the adjacency bonus is extremely high