I didn't miss a thing.  You said that ID could squeak by with a 400 watter... and that is neither wise or acceptable.  As for the 450/500w PSU, a paltry 50w isn't much of a leap, and an extra 100w is neither here nor there should ID want to upgrade his CPU and other components later... I mean, why end up having buy a 2nd PSU when getting the right one first up saves the hassle and expense.

The trend for hardware now is efficiency. In a couple years he'll be upgrading to components that use less power.

I don't understand why you're not advocating for him to buy a bigger processor or telling him to buy several more powerful graphics cards if that's what you think he needs. Instead you're telling him to spend $100+ more on a PSU that he doesn't need just in case...

Just in case he decides to gut the entire machine he's spending ~$1000 on right now.

Edit: I want to be clear that I acknowledge that there are a lot of different perspectives on how to build the perfect system. They mostly revolve around what you plan to do with that system. We don't know what ID's plans are. I am basing my comments on the fact that he has been using the same system for 7 years and based on the specs of the stuff he actually bought.

I think my advice regarding the PSU applies whether you're planning on making a high-powered gaming rig, a bit-coin miner, or an office desktop. You need to get a good estimate of the total peak wattage of your system and buy a PSU that's just past that wattage (15-20%). So if you're planning on putting in a quad-SLI and that needs 1000W, by all means, buy a 1200W PSU. If ID is planning on upgrading to an SLI system then he should incorporate that into his peak wattage calculation.

Actually...the cheap 500 will fail more assuredly when it's limit of capability is more easily reached.

Exact same thing applies with a car.  If it's good/powerful enough to cruise on the highway at 2000rpm at 110kph it WILL last longer than a fart-box at 5000rpm.

Island Dog can use the site I linked to and get SAFER advice than running a 400 watt.

If all it is is a question of 'efficiency' then look for the PSU certification, not how low its headroom might be.

People shouldn't recommend failure to others.  Wobbly advice isn't good for anyone...;)

You sir, are a car salesman's dream.

True, efficiency is the aim, but ID would need to add just one of these 'efficient' components and he's underpowered, based on what he already has.

Also, have you considered multiple HDDs in your evaluation?   What say he has 6 x2Tb drives; a sound card; a TV tuner and a couple of SATA/USB expansion cards to add from his current machine? 

Nothing like that was mention because ID was referring to the new compnents, but nevertheless, whether he has all these extras or not, the advice still stands.  It is better to be slightly overpowered than to not have enough, as you're advocating.   And nobody is suggesting that ID go for a 1200w or a 1500w PSU.  A 750w to 800w is quite sufficient and certainly not overkill, as it seems you are suggesting.

Put another way, 95% of the streets surrounding you are 35mph/60kmph, therefore I recommend you purchase a car that can do only 36mph/62kmph, no more.  You'd argue that you'd need more power to get yourself out of trouble at times, and I'd argue it isn't necessary, given the prevailing speed limit and road conditions.

I don't buy from car salesmen, nor do I take advice from them....

...so when it comes to me...they can ONLY 'dream' ....;p

Nope, he's a racer's best friend. Jafo knows speed. Jafo know limits. You spout silly "green" concerns. As Jafo said, having to buy another PSU, or worse yet, having to replace the entire machine due to PSU failure or under powering  things is needlessly wasteful and will fill a landfill somewhere with dead before their time components. How green is that?

 

ID isn't trying to build "The Perfect System" He's trying to get the most for his money and build a rig that won't be replaced in a year or two, or three. It needs to last. Do we know what external devices he'll hook to it? No.  Suppose he wants to charge his phone, his tablet, his camera, use a usb powered dock, or HDD?

 Sorry Sweaty, your advice is not sound. ID needs your advice like he needs a boil on his backside.

 

 

Oooooh, a boil on the bum can be quite nasty.. especially just millimetres from the business end of the body's waste disposal unit.

 

Hehe, reading back over this thread, it reminds me of the bloke who went to seethe doctor regarding two main concerns.

One: his eyelids does not cover his eyeballs so he spends much of his life awake.

Two: he has way too much foreskin and it causes issues when urinating.

Anyway, the doctor comes up with the solution to remove his foreskin and graft it on to his underdeveloped eyelids.

The man agteed and the surgery went ahead.

Trouble is, now he has a cockeyed view of things.

There is absolutely no reason to go beyond these two sentences.

If you don't simply understand and accept it, there's just no hope.

 

I seem to have an overpowering urge to repeat that and highlight it. 

I feel like ID probably bought the 800W PSU, so it's all moot now. But the point being that the only reason to do that is if he genuinely anticipates needing 800W.

Why not buy a bigger PSU than you need, you know, just in case?

1. It costs more.

2. It wastes energy.

But doesn't a higher wattage PSU mean better quality? No.

But doesn't a higher wattage PSU mean it will last longer? No.

But doesn't a higher wattage PSU mean it wont fail? No.

Stop it.

Why NOT to buy a PSU that very closely fits your system specs let’s say 500Watts.
1. A PSU that runs at full capacity is -NOISY- the fan will be likely running at full speed.
2. If you run out of disk space and you want to install another drive consider it will also consume some power.
3. If you have a modern GPU - it will clock its speeds accordingly to the demands of the game.
4. You will not be able to overclock your system.
5. You will face problems when running a "K" Processor since they also clock themselves.
6. You will likely end up with a dead/broken PSU in 1-2 years if it runs 24/7

But doesn't a higher wattage PSU mean better quality? Yes if they have ++ on it for efficiency, also higher watt PSU do not have the cheap boost converter/Step-up-Converters, diodes and most of all transistors that pop after 3 months build in.
 
But doesn't a higher wattage PSU mean it will last longer?  IT will since it is not at full demand the whole time.
Jafo already explained it to you above with the example of the sports car and the fart box.

But doesn't a higher wattage PSU mean it won’t fail? No. (Correct) - the chances for it to fail however are minimal compared to a cheap brand low budget 2-3/86 PSU, that suffers and barely can maintain the Voltage T_T.
it will sway/wobble in the output if it runs at full capacity.
With a high end PSU you will either face the first problems when you unpack it and plug it up, in that case you return it. Since these do a check on startup and shutdown if something is wrong to avoid damaging Hardware.
If hardware is broken you will notice during the first or second week normally.

If ID was buying a Office PC and would not be willing to upgrade the system your suggestion of buying 450W PSU would be absolutely fine.
Or if he would only use the integraded GPU and would not install a GFX.

 

Man, if nothing else, you are persitent.  Or should I say stubborn?  I mean, if you had a dozen or so others agreeing with you I could almost understand it, but you haven't even on,  No, everyone is in agreement that ID should invest in a higher PSU to adequately accommodate his hardware and save himself the heartache later one, yet you still argue in the opposite despite that fact. 

So yeah, no matter how many times you flog it, that horse is going to remain dead.... just sayin'

I 'really should' add...

Island Dog has listed his intended specs for his new GAMING computer...not a 'workstation' per se.  The biggest demands are therefore with gaming and what games... and, as with all-things gaming...demands only increase.  To future-proof the machine it needs a larger PSU, AND more money spent on it.

His current choice is a good brand...no issues with Corsair [that's what mine is too], however I also see an issue with both the lower wattage AND it being a "bronze - certified' rather than something more efficient AND capable.

Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one.  Fortunately when there is a consensus of opinion going one way there's a good chance that advice will be heeded.

 

There are ALWAYS things that can be scrimped-on but a PSU is not one of them...;)

 

At no time have I suggested ID go for what I did...as that's entirely a different animal....for a 'cutting-edge' system, where about $400 US for a PSU was within the budget.  It'd be interesting to compare actual power CONSUMPTION of both PSUs when attached to the same machine....ie does a 1200watt Platinum ticking over at idle without its fan running at all [and thus 100% silent] use more juice than a 600watt Bronze closer to peak at 30db of fan cooling....

 

Edit...

My 'choice' would be something more like an AX760 from Corsair ...80+ Platinum certified modular ....and yes, it's a little dearer...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139042

Everything is ordered!  I wasn't expecting to get this done for a few more months, but careful planning worked out.  Hopefully everything will arrive this week so I can build this weekend.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ypnmBm

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($179.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 PRO4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($110.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($39.99)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB SSC ACX 2.0 Video Card ($351.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Newegg) 

Total: $772.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-02 10:41 EST-0500

That looks like a nice machine, ID, with that CPU, 8gb RAM and the GTX 970, you'll have a more than worthy machine, especially with a SSD on board for your OS.

And for not too bad a price, I might add.... so glad you didn't go lower and went for the 750w PSU instead of something inadequate,

Anyway, congrats and I hope it arrives soon.... as Jafo said just a few weeks ago, waiting can be the hardest part.

Keeping just a wee bit back from 'the bleeding edge' is both cheaper and safer - tried and true componentry/setup.

Playing with the 'expensive bits' can be fun, though...[expensive = my CPU cost more than that entire system]...;)

Remember my golden rule....when first you power up close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears...;)

So what do you use to push the power button with your fingers in your ears? 

I suppose a big toe would suffice.

Unlike you I have more than one finger on each hand....;)

 Very Nice affordable machine. I don't want t o put a damper on the build but you might consider another video card. Some interesting reading.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/198214-198214

http://www.myce.com/news/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-has-serious-performance-decreasing-memory-bug-74543/

 

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/806672/gtx-970-vram-rops-and-l2cache/

One more link on the 970 ---

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/nvidia-vows-to-boost-geforce-gtx-970-performance-with-driver-update/

Oh i have ALL my fingers... AND thumbs.... but I'm thinking if I have a finger of each hand in each ear, then it brings my head ever-so close to that 'potential' explosion if I use a spare finger to press the button.... hence the big toe idea.... provides a bit of distance and could prevent 'potential' concussion.

The better idea is a set of industrial strength ear muffs and a long, long broomstick mounted on a mechanical device that allows you to press the button from the next room.... and if at first you don't hear a big bang [because of the ear muffs], you sniff to smell smoke..  If all's clear you go back into the room and start loading the OS, etc.

However, I don't know that ID will need to take such precautions.  He built his last rig and it lasted 7 years... so he must be doing something right.

Nah, the only person who puts his fingers in his ears is a novice or first time builder... or somebody who isn't entirely confident in his PC building ability.

That's interesting regarding the GTX970.  When I begin to build my next machine I'll have to keep this in mind, given I had considered a 970 as a graphics solution.

I haven't heard of anyone having actual issues because of it (self included), just in synthetic vram benchmarks. Still, nVidia should not be advertising it as a 4GB card when the upper 512MB runs barely faster than system memory. They should have advertised it appropriately (3.5GB with 512MB of supercache!) or just disabled it entirely.

Annoyingly, they are only offering refunds (and a promise of drivers that handle the design better), which puts folks without a video card for whatever time and means buying a more expensive model (or AMD) to get what is actually advertised. They should be comping folks with a retroactive discount for this fiasco.

Kinda glad I went for the 980 ...;)