Economics and quick unit building

For this topic, my goal was to find some simple economics to guide base building, with the idea that ultimately we want to produce units as quickly as we can. I'm intending to explore this further than just this OP, but I wouldn't mind some help.

In your starting area you have four metal deposits. Extractors provide 1 metal per second (mps), plus you get one just from your seed. A factory continuously producing T1 units consumes 5 mps, assuming you do not get engineers to help, which means your starting base can continuously support one factory. In real gameplay it is actually less than this, because you need to build logistics buildings too. Without capturing additional areas, you can get 3 logistics buildings, for a total of 40 logistics. Each T1 squad takes 1 logistics and each engineer 3. I have tended to start with 2 engineers, leaving 34 logistics for units. 102 T1 units is a pretty sizeable army, and it only takes about 7.5 minutes to get there.

Once you start to expand you get more power, thus can support more buildings (factories and logistics, mainly). Typical resource sectors provide 3 metal or 3 reactives deposits. You need a minimum of 5F - 1 metal extractors to continuously build units, where F is the number of factories (the -1 is the seed). Again, you have to allow more than that in order to allow for building logistics.

Let's say you have some reactives coming in. You'll probably want to start building battle groups. To achieve full battlegroups and continuously produce them, you need 1 T2 unit and 5 T1 squads. These can be built by two factories in 36 seconds, using a total of 390 metal and 10 reactives. Thus you need 10 metal extractors and 1 reactives extractor, again not factoring logistics.

In the quick start map, you don't get much more resource nodes than this close to your base, so you are unlikely to want more than 2 factories at a time until much later in the game. More than the 2 factories and you have wasted metal constructing them. The only reason to build more is to have factories closer to the front lines, very valuable certainly. But even so you'd probably have to keep your base factories idle. You also need to account for the building of other structures, which takes metal and reactives away from war units.

If you want to boost factories with engineers, you can do so with diminishing returns. A T1 squad takes 12 seconds to produce normally, but only 8 with 1 engineer helping. That's a huge bump. Keep in mind while you are producing units faster, you are also consuming metal faster, so you'd need the extra extractors to keep up. If you don't have sufficient extraction you will eventually run out of metal, and at that point you will not gain any extra speed from the engineer. With the help of 2 engineers, units come out in about 6.75 seconds.

I also looked into the refineries. The first metal refinery costs 600 metal, 120 reactives and gives you an additional flat 0.5 mps once constructed. It therefore takes 1200 seconds (20 minutes) to recoup the metal spent, not including the metal used to research the needed tech or the reactives spent in the research and construction which are not recouped. The reactives refinery gives you 0.1 reactives per second (rps), and costs 120 reactives, so it will also take 20 minutes to recoup the reactives cost (not to mention the metal which you don't recoup). The second refineries are worse, providing an additional 0.3 mps/rps, thus the cost to recoup those resources takes even longer. Furthermore, these refineries take 15 power, i.e. 1.5 sectors worth of power, each. In summary, refineries are either too expensive, too inefficient, or both. In addition to reducing their cost and increasing their efficiency, it might be valuable to have the refinery bonus scale with the number of operational extractors. Another interesting possibility would be for refineries to convert from metal to reactives and vice versa, with some inefficiency penalty.

So all of the above helps us consider game pacing. First, continuous production is definitely limited by metal extracting in the early game. I believe that is appropriate because it forces you to make a tactical decision whether to grow your army rapidly, or grow your base rapidly or somewhere in between. I believe the tactical choices are going to become even more pronounced when more air units and possibly more structures come into the game.

Second, let's consider the unit production speed versus battle speed. Put two opposing factories constantly producing only T1 units head to head to clash somewhere between them. The units take so long to destroy each other that each side gets the next batch of reinforcements long before the mini-battle is over. The result is that both sides continuously build up their side. So at this pace, a winning strategy practically necessitates, if you are able to produce T1 units continuously, you should do it and send them in a continuous stream toward the enemy. If the enemy doesn't do the same, they will get overwhelmed and lose. NOTE: This does not factor in turrets, I haven't tested that yet.

 

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Reply #1 Top

After my limited testing, I have determined that it is an approximately optimal opening to have your initial engineer build metal extractors, and to build a second engineer that will immediately build a factory when completed. Once your metal extractors are completed, that engineer begins building one Logistics Array and will wait when completed.

The reason for this is that 10 Logistics is insufficient to maintain an adequate expansion party, you need 20. So your first factory (assisted by second Engineer) builds 2x Brute, 1x Archer, 1x Aegis, and then a large number of Brutes. You want a scout with radar to accompany the expansion party, and you want your first two units to be Brutes.

The Brutes proceed directly from the factory to the closest expansion point and start a fight, trying to capture the point immediately regardless of whether there are enemies nearby. Reinforcements will win the fight for you before the Aegis completes. Start building Logistics Arrays two through four.

As soon as the first VP point is captured, immediately proceed to the next one, with reinforcements joining them as they are completed. Always drive directly to the VP point, even if there are enemies nearby, as this will cause you to capture the point faster. 

Continue production off of one factory constantly. Send the assisting engineer from the factory to build resource points- preferably metal. This engineer will likely spend the rest of the game walking around the map building resource points and sometimes defensive structures. The engineer in the base should be building mainly Logistics Arrays, and when needed, Research Matrixes.

As it now stands, research is not essential to win the game. However it is difficult to make effective use of reactives without using research, so if you have reactives you will likely need to spend it on research, including to unlock units that cost reactives. Keeping reactives low is a real challenge just because there isn't a lot to spend them on. Reactives are a low priority. The most important thing is constant Brute production, with some Archers mixed in, and at least one Aegis in each group.

If the enemy has planes, you can add Apollo units for AA, or build fighters of your own. I see no reason to build bombers, or to make scout planes except for early game scouting of an unfamiliar map. Once you know the map layout they are not useful.

Once you have maybe five or more VP points and their resources, you can construct an Advanced Factory and begin constructing capital ships. I haven't determined which is the best yet. I haven't even determined if this is better than just making more troops. More factories may be required to spend metal, but the game is usually over very quickly.

Obviously I have never tested this against a human opponent, but after testing other starts and other builds, I have reasonable suspicions that this type of opening is going to be very tough to surpass in terms of rate of expansion and increase in military strength.

Reply #2 Top

That is precisely the starting build I have been going with. With that staring build you do exhaust you initial supply of metal in the first minute or so, preventing you from queuing units, logistics array, and metal extractors outside your base, so you have to take a small break from building brutes to get a little banked.

Im going to assume that this game is eventually going to be much richer so that a variety of early and long term strategies are viable.

Reply #3 Top

What i do at the moment is the following:

1- First Engineer builds an extractor then a factory.

2- Queue up 2 extra Engineers and as they finish they both go make the remaining 3 metal extractors.

3- The 2 extra Engineer will make 1 logistics facility.

4- I stick 2 Engineers helping the factory pump out units and the third one will come with my units to the front.

4- After this i just spam Scouts, i think they are better than brutes and missile skirmishers early due to their range, attack speed and they have a consistent fire rate. Since if you have too many brutes not all of them will shoot due to range, and missile skirmishers seam to bug out near elevations.

 

Im always going for this mass scout expantion force and then spam zeus heavy tier 2 units with missile skirmishers.

Reply #4 Top

Mass scout works much better than you would expect coming from other strategy games. But the scout is exactly the same price as the Brute and Archer, but as for its strength against T1 it has only two pips instead of three. I assume this means scouts deal less damage, but this could be incorrect.

The Aegis scouts are very useful for their radar, but they don't move any faster, and the game seems to say that their weapons are inferior.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting ledarsi, reply 4

the game seems to say that their weapons are inferior.
End of ledarsi's quote

Yeah if only i could make a video and post the differences between 3 scouts killing a creep camp and 3 brutes, you would see that 3 scouts are better xD

Reply #6 Top

Quoting ledarsi, reply 4
 it has only two pips instead of three. I assume this means scouts deal less damage, but this could be incorrect.
End of ledarsi's quote

I'm possibly completely wrong, but from memory the pips are just UI values and not directly related to actual unit data.