ASADDF

Join Date 02/2008

+50

My Thought after playing a few MP games with the best players

I do have a lot of Fun playing this game, Thank you Dev's for making this awesome game.

It does need a lot of work but so far i like it.

So after i got in a few Custom games with the bet Players, I learned a lot of thing from them, game-play wise

All the players started with PHC, and they just build Brutes all the way to the end, then they added some Zeus and other T2 units.
after they did send some air to the back of my base and took down my extractors and some of my Structures
Damn this game does need a lot of APM, some times I feel even more than Starcraft
Substrate does really bad Against PHC, right now there is no way to win against somebody who rush with brutes, and lates add some Zeus to those brutes.

Ok now my thoughts about all that.. Playing like that it make a lot of players loose interest in the game right now so it does need a lot of optimizations,

If i do the same as the other players and build Brutes non stop, the player with more APM will win easy! because you need to send troops in every way possible to take regions plus some OP air, there shoul be a way to make some cheap Anti air structures or Units that can stop some Air Rush's, I mean let me explain Something. the player who make air First and send it out there will win the game, it take a lot of time and is expensive to build Anti Air Structures, well its my way of thinking, I will need to keep playing against those players to get a better hang of the game, and see if there is a way to Counter Brutes.

Its just not fun to play like that, i know its all about winning so who cares how somebody play, so My recommendation to the Dev's is to look into that and try to find a way to counter all that rush by creating a new Unit or Structures or change the Brutes.

Why Only Brutes have 6 units? and the rest have 1. or 3. Right now Quantity is winning against quality.

Lets say i want to build a Group of Martyr or a group of Reaper and i bring 1 group of Brutes, the Brutes destroy the Reapers, or Martyr, so just fix any Substrate unit that can go against a group of Brute to destroy each other at least.

That's all that i have to say abut the game so far, Still it does not make me stop playing, i just want to get better and better, but those Brutes need to be addressed early in the game.

Thank you.

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tatsujb

Quoting tatsujb,

reply 1

Damn this game does need a lot of APM, some times I feel even more than Starcraft

this.

Might feel that way but no, it doesnt, not by a long shot. Diamond/master sc2 player here.

I play 100% substrate, and while i agree that their cruiser choices are kinda crappy, their air and defenses are super good, like insanely good.

75 metal only for repair station? that thing is OP as hell, you can literaly turtle with mass tier 1 turrets and repair stations.

About brutes, yes pure tier 1 spam vs tier 1 spam substrate looses, but thats why you have the OP, cheap defense creep.

Also just keep bombers hovering your defences and act almost as arty and its all you do as substrate mass tier 1, air and defenses.

Might wanna replace tier 1 units once you get lategame Eco going, by just going dreads and drone cruisers, but thats just lategame.

The only thing that pisses me off a bit, is how PHC has acess to a cruiser AA unit while substracte AA is tier 1 only.

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ASADDF

Join Date 02/2008

+50

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

I play 100% substrate, and while i agree that their cruiser choices are kinda crappy, their air and defenses are super good, like insanely good.

yes Air Units and Defense are good, i will test it later, but still Air Units will take you a lot of time to build, and when you get some PHC will have 60-70% of the map its complicated to expand fast the way PHC does it.

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

Might wanna replace tier 1 units once you get lategame Eco going, by just going dreads and drone cruisers, but thats just lategame.

yep late game, it will be kind of very late to do when you have PHC near your Nexus.

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

The only thing that pisses me off a bit, is how PHC has acess to a cruiser AA unit while substracte AA is tier 1 only.

i will Start doing for more defensive builds with Substrate while expanding, i will see how it can manage quantity vs quality.(?Substrate being Quality?)

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Quoting ASADDF,

reply 3

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

I play 100% substrate, and while i agree that their cruiser choices are kinda crappy, their air and defenses are super good, like insanely good.

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

Might wanna replace tier 1 units once you get lategame Eco going, by just going dreads and drone cruisers, but thats just lategame.

yep late game, it will be kind of very late to do when you have PHC near your Nexus.

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

The only thing that pisses me off a bit, is how PHC has acess to a cruiser AA unit while substracte AA is tier 1 only.

The thing is that when you play against a good player, after he get more than 60% of the map he start sending some Air units against your units and Structures, (Structures don't last more than 10 second) while it take forever to build Units. compared to how fast you loose Structures.

i will Start doing for more defensive builds with Substrate while expanding, i will see how it can manage quantity vs quality.(?Substrate being Quality?)

Substrate air takes a while yes, but can always have a lonely factory with 1 bomber 1 figther queued once you have like 2-3 reactives extractors.

Usually works well, since even just 1 bomber works great.

Abut defenses yes spam them like hell.

In terms of cruisers played some games, dam the substrate frigates if you have a core amount, they almost one shot everything in front, due to the spread attack they do, you just require like a ton of them.

Substrate struggles a bit in killing dreads, but i find bombers are the most effective.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

Hi guys.

This week we're doing a pretty decent sized balance patch.

A few notes on this post:

Brutes basically melt to Zeus's.
The Avenger hose is being buffed to do more damage to Brutes

I've played some of the people you mention who build mass bug builds (mass brutes) and wipe them out fairly easily with a combination of Zeus's and air power.

What you need to look for is rapid metal expansion by them early on.

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ASADDF

Join Date 02/2008

+50

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 6

The Avenger hose is being buffed to do more damage to Brutes

That's good to know.

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Quoting Andre_B,

reply 5

Substrate air takes a while yes, but can always have a lonely factory with 1 bomber 1 figther queued once you have like 2-3 reactives extractors.

Usually works well, since even just 1 bomber works great.

Abut defenses yes spam them like hell.

In terms of cruisers played some games, dam the substrate frigates if you have a core amount, they almost one shot everything in front, due to the spread attack they do, you just require like a ton of them.

Substrate struggles a bit in killing dreads, but i find bombers are the most effective.

dont get me wrong but defenses arent what u want at all.

i get that you are a bit weaker on t1 units and having a few turrets can help stabalise your position, BUT

this game is about getting out on the map to eigther get those precious victory points or more recources. or both.

but thats not what u get if you build defenses too early.

i see substrate more on a "teching" role.

i have pretty good success against AI with a straigth tech to build dronefrigates first. one drone frigate is enough to expand VERY fast, as they dont need anyx additional forces to take any neutral camp there is. i still didnt find the proper way to get this build going against human players that just spam t1, but i really think that getting fast dronefrigates that can melt brutes early on is the way to go. my "only" problem right now is that i have to figure out how to get those frigates a decent meatshield yet.

the build right now is pretty much like:

1) builder takes triangle node and builds reactors as it finishes. quantum archive as soon as reactor finish.

2) 1st worker built, builds metalnotes at mainbase and a factory after.

3) as soon as quantum finishes, built drone frigate.

4) shiftqueue drone frigate half the map. dont worry, it will capture every point with ease.

5) get more workers, add more factorys.

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Quoting Andre_B,

reply 5

Quoting ASADDF,

reply 3

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

I play 100% substrate, and while i agree that their cruiser choices are kinda crappy, their air and defenses are super good, like insanely good.

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

Might wanna replace tier 1 units once you get lategame Eco going, by just going dreads and drone cruisers, but thats just lategame.

yep late game, it will be kind of very late to do when you have PHC near your Nexus.

Quoting Andre_B,

reply 2

The only thing that pisses me off a bit, is how PHC has acess to a cruiser AA unit while substracte AA is tier 1 only.

The problem with the matchup right now is that PHC can

1) cheese you with a 2 minute use of Incursion

2) Rush 5-6 Artemis and kite you and bomb your structures from a safe distance

Bombers cost 360 radioactive each for Substrate so you aren't getting those any time soon in a an early game rush of Artemis - which are just 24 radio apiece. By the time you have a bomber out he can easily counter with Apollos. Bomber is good for harassing his eco elsewhere but these two issues kind of break the match up vs. equal players.

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ASADDF

Join Date 02/2008

+50

Substrate need some kind of Buffs, T1's are not good enough against PHC

And substrate does not have any long range Weapon against units.

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Quoting ASADDF,

reply 10

Substrate need some kind of Buffs, T1's are not good enough against PHC

And substrate does not have any long range Weapon against units.

Substrate needs a few minor buffs if you ask me.

The orbitals for the most part suck as Substrate while PHC has Incursion.

Maybe slightly up the damage on T1 units, and consider adding some range to the T2 units (Just the heavy cruiser I think).

Also possibly lower the amount of resources needed for bombers.

It's true they don't have any long range units, but they more than make up for it with close range. So long as the enemy doesn't have sentinel turrets about that is..

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