escalation: substrate air Harbinger vs Punisher

I have been messing around with the substrate air unit the air harbinger, and found it to be underwhelming. for a unit that will only attack buildings, and more expensive then the Punisher, I find the unit rather underwhelming. The Punisher steps on the air harbinger's role little too effectively without any real difference to discern them. Both attack single targets both are long ranged, Why make an air Harbinger when you can have 2 punishers for better damage potential, equal build time to one air harbinger. This makes the Punisher the obvious choice for air to ground building destruction and has the benefit of being able to attack units as well. The air harbinger currently does not do its only 1 role effective enough to warrant building which the punisher excels better at. The unit doesn't inspire fear or dread like the strategic bomber that the PHC does when you see one. I would end up silently thanking the player for putting resources into them instead of Punishers. Unless I missed something about the unit, I think the unit needs another look at and be reworked.

 

Some ideas include a buff to the air harbinger is a multiple building targeting laser weapon that targets up to 4 buildings with the same current dps it has. Another which is a nerf to the punisher and removes some harassment possibilities. Remove the weapons ability to target buildings like what was done to mauler's hyena laser cutter. and relegate it to a pure cruiser/dreadnought killer. Personally the ssecond one I like the least but gives building destruction completely to the air harbinger.

 

Other ideas are also welcome specially if they are better then the ones I had

 

 

271 views 3 replies
Reply #1 Top

The harbinger the new big Sub bomber? I haven't looked at numbers so I can't comment on your findings, but I do think it needs to have some kind of visual shot for when it fires. At the moment you get some red marks on what you hit but that is it. A little underwhelming. It needs a big fat pulse or something :)

Reply #2 Top

it is indeed the new sub bomber, and in its current iteration is very underwhelming indeed. I agree visually lacking as well, and does need something with impressive for its attack. When you have time give the two units a comparison check, I will even try join your game to test it out.

Reply #3 Top

 

 

Internal ID Max HPs Max Energy Energy Per Second Max Shields Shield Regen Rate Sight Radius Cost Metal Cost Data Cost Logistics Construction Time Vs Buildings
SS_A_Punisher 300 0   1200 3 600 200 240 12 60  
SS_A_AirHarbinger 1800 250 1 600 0.5 500 400 800 20 120 1

 

The above data is in the most recent Preview build (1.90.23467)

 

Here's the same data looking at is specifically comparing the two with Punisher as the baseline (0%) vs Harbinger at +%

 

Punisher vs Harbinger
Max HP 600%
Max Energy 250%
Energy Per Second 100%
Max Shields 50%
Shield Regen Rate 17%
Sight Radius 83%
Cost of Metal 200%
Cost of Data (Rads) 333%
Logistics 167%
Construction Time 200%
vs Buildings 100%

 

 

This last table is the cost per second of each individual ship

Construction cost per second
  Punisher Harbinger
Metal 3.333333 3.333333333
Radioactives 6.666667 4
Logistics 0.166667 0.2
Max HP 15 5
Max Shields 5 20