Feedback regarding Unit design, Maps and Scaling

from AshesoftheSingularity Forums

Hi,

I recently started playing Escalation, and as someone who loved Supreme Commander I also really like some of the improvements this game adds to the genre (the army system is one of the best systems I have seen in RTS games). Simultaneously, after playing some missions, something seems to be missing. I know that this game doesn't try to be a direct successor to SupCom, these are just some points I really would like to see improved.

First, all the units seem to be rather samey. I am not talking about the balance or their purpose, but their looks. It doesn't help that they are all hovercrafts (and yes, I read the reason for that). They also seem to be rather boring regarding their design - in SupCom, you had tanks, mechs, huge spiders, gunships, UFOs, multi-barreled artillery and so on and so forth. Here, dreadnoughts just look like upscaled versions of the smaller units. The variants look almost identical with some weapons changed. Every unit is also quite "flat" - they don't have a lot of height. Buildings, especially the factories, could also use some more animations. They just don't really seem "busy" when creating a new unit.

Additionally, in a recent post of a developer they said that naval units are going to be added. I was quite excited at first, until I read that there probably aren't going to be huge battleships. Why? Is bombarding the land with huge cannons not fun?

Imho, there's a lot of wasted potential right there - if the engine allows to add multiple, independent guns to a vehicle, why not try something more ridiculous? I think everybody who watched the trailer for SupCom remembers the monkeylord, a huge spider-like mech with a laserbeam that disintegrates unit after unit, which just felt awesome. I don't really have the same feeling when playing this game and attacking someone with my dreadnoughts. I also looked at screenshots of the upcoming Juggernauts, but even those look more like upscaled versions of the dreadnought. This is just not exciting enough.

This brings me to my next point: The maps. Granted, I am currently quite biased right now, since I only played a few skirmish maps and some missions of the campaign: Why are the maps all so cramped and full of cliffs? I have the ability to create huge armies, but there's not really a huge (and diverse) area where I can use them and watch them fight. Again, look at the trailer for SupCom to see what I would prefer. Also, how about some colour?

Now to my final point: The scaling of the units. Why are engineers just as big as frigates? Why are cruisers only a little bigger than frigates? Only the dreadnoughts seem reasonable to me, but still quite small to be honest - especially when looking at the range of these things. It looks like as if they can only fire around ten times as far as their own size. Why limit this game so much there? A huge cannon doesn't feel epic when it can't fire further away than 20 meters.

I would like it more if engineers were smaller, frigates were smaller and cruisers were bigger. The overall weapons range should be heavily increased. Sadly at this point, I guess it's not really possible anymore. I am still eager to see what the new updates will change.

 

What is your opinion regarding my points? Do you feel the same way?

Thanks for reading, and thanks for creating and supporting this game!

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Reply #1 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

As a fellow Supcom FA (+ some really good MODs) player, I totally agree with you, but i have to say, it's still early for navy to being presented.. For to be navy in this game , a lot of fundamental changes needed, and this game simply not ready for that. But well , at least Ashes is the only game, what is really close to SupCom FA (SC2 was a bad joke, PA was another, StarCraft 2 is more or less an E-Sport strategy, what have a good storyline, Grey Goo is laughable with only a few good ideas).

Reply #2 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

yeah i would also like to see the unit size changes. and a lot of the maps are far too tight, as u stated. its one of the big reasons why using the army option is actually detrimental to game play. its better to not create armies so ur units can maneuver better in the tight areas..

also nothing is set in stone.. we are most likely still getting battleships and the like..

from a design point, if u increased the weapon range of all weapons, it would mean u are zoomed out even further in combat so that u can see what u are shooting at, which means u wont graphically have such a good experience, it is the main reason why so many games reduce the range of weapons. have u played the wargame series? most if not all ur time is spent zoomed out (if ur playing to win) so u hardly get to see the detail on the units. devs want people to see their units, it encourages the common folk to play the game..

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top


Additionally, in a recent post of a developer they said that naval units are going to be added. I was quite excited at first, until I read that there probably aren't going to be huge battleships. Why? Is bombarding the land with huge cannons not fun?
End of quote

Hi, can you post a link to where you saw that? I must have missed it, thanks.

Reply #4 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting MrPhalanx, reply 1
But well , at least Ashes is the only game, what is really close to SupCom FA
End of MrPhalanx's quote

True. It's sad that there aren't more games like this, and SupCom shows its age, especially regarding the handling of units (which is why I like the army system so much).

Quoting Quesocito, reply 2
from a design point, if u increased the weapon range of all weapons, it would mean u are zoomed out even further in combat so that u can see what u are shooting at, which means u wont graphically have such a good experience, it is the main reason why so many games reduce the range of weapons. have u played the wargame series? most if not all ur time is spent zoomed out (if ur playing to win) so u hardly get to see the detail on the units. devs want people to see their units, it encourages the common folk to play the game..
End of Quesocito's quote

That's a good point. Althought I still think that a game like this isn't really going to be played zoomed in a lot anyway - the sheer number of units makes this difficult. This even adds to the point I said where the units don't even look exciting enough to be viewed up-close. With so many units, it would look imho way better if they increased the range - this also allows you to see more units at once, since, as you said, you are probably going to be viewing the battlefield from further away. A good example for this is the "Total War"-series, where you are also quite far away from the actual combat (you can still zoom in if you want to, there's just no advantage to it).

Quoting Ticktoc, reply 3

Hi, can you post a link to where you saw that? I must have missed it, thanks.
End of Ticktoc's quote

I found it, however I confused the user with a developer, sorry. I hope they do not make it like the user suggests, and instead allow Navy to be more than glorified unit carriers.

Reply #5 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting Gnebbers, reply 4
That's a good point. Althought I still think that a game like this isn't really going to be played zoomed in a lot anyway - the sheer number of units makes this difficult. This even adds to the point I said where the units don't even look exciting enough to be viewed up-close. With so many units, it would look imho way better if they increased the range - this also allows you to see more units at once, since, as you said, you are probably going to be viewing the battlefield from further away. A good example for this is the "Total War"-series, where you are also quite far away from the actual combat (you can still zoom in if you want to, there's just no advantage to it).

I found it, however I confused the user with a developer, sorry. I hope they do not make it like the user suggests, and instead allow Navy to be more than glorified unit carriers.

End of Gnebbers's quote

thanks for the link

i do spend a lot of time zoomed out in TW as well (for coordination especially in the larger battles where one is trying to flank all the way around the map with cavalry) and i spend a lot of time zoomed out in aots as well (again in the larger games i might spend up to 80% of my time looking at symbols) but if u consider most RTS games, they will generally try to allow players to fight while zoomed in to some extent (not all the way) but enough so that u arent just looking at symbols, to keep the action and sense of being in the combat.

i know AOTS units arent the most amazing wrt RTS games, but they are still something to look at and better looking than symbols. so even if u arent zooming in to see the decals on a brute, u are going to see a lot less of the action if the units had more range. which is more realistic in some ways, but less entertaining for the masses.. i like to use starcraft as a reference since it is the most played RTS, im not saying AOTS must be like SC, but if u look at SC u can see how ranges are made unnaturally short, to keep a sense of action and make the game more entertaining.. even COH, has shorter ranges than would be in real life. all to enhance the sense of being in the action..

besides the entertainment levels being maintained, changing unit ranges would entail a large number of sight/radar ranges, possible orbital AOE changes, armies could be more spread out so orbitals would need to effect larger areas, short range units might become even weaker, so would need health buffs etc.

 

Reply #6 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting Gnebbers, reply 4

Quoting Ticktoc, reply 3
Hi, can you post a link to where you saw that? I must have missed it, thanks.
I found it, however I confused the user with a developer, sorry. I hope they do not make it like the user suggests, and instead allow Navy to be more than glorified unit carriers.
End of Gnebbers's quote

 

Thanks. I am pretty sure we will be getting big ships, that is half the fun of the Navy surely :)