The problem with rich people

America creates rich Americans, not the other way around

    The problem with rich people in the United States is that too many of them think buy into the line that they are truly self-starters. That they "did it on their own". No American "does it on their own". Being rich means, first and foremost, that you happened to be lucky enough to be born in the United States. Think about what the United States provides a would-be rich person...

  • The world's largest single language common market
  • The world's largest, most educated single work force
  • Free K12 education
  • Low income help for college students
  • A relatively safe environment to live and work
  • A stable government that attracts foreign investment
  • An uncorrupt court system
  • A strong system of patents and intellectual property laws
  • A reasonably healthy work force
  • A work force that is able and willing to move for employers

    These are not things created by rich people. They were created by all of us. Rich people take these for granted and delude themselves into thinking that they are somehow, magical, mystical and superior. As a result, they often have utter disdain for those who aren't as materially wealthy as they are because they equate wealth with moral and intellectual superiority.

    What America's wealthy fail to realize is that without the existing benefits of the United States, they wouldn't be wealthy. Take Bill Gates or any other rich American and have them born instead in say Nigeria and they are going to be another impoverished person. Republican "states rights" nuts ignore that it is the weakening of federalism that has allowed Americans to get fantastically wealthy in the first place. If health and other benefits were on a state by state basis, that mobile work force we so rely on would disappear pretty fast. If states had any real control over business, the biggest advantage for American businesses, a huge home common market, would dry right up.

    You may ask yourself, what makes America different than Niger? The difference is, amongst many other factors, the bullet points above. And those bullet-points are paid for by taxes. Taxes provided mostly from the rich admittedly but it is they, the rich, that have benefited the most from the massive public infrastructure they take advantage of in order to get rich in the first place.

    The same right-wingers who are nostalgic for the "good old days" when there were no federal income taxes should look again at the results. Since federal income taxes, the life expectancy and standard of living of all Americans has risen dramatically. A rise that is largely thanks to the increased size of government. Consumers, feeling safe because of a basic safety net, are less likely to squirrel away every last cent for their elder days and instead consume today. The goods and services they buy today make their way up the economic food chain to the wealthy Americans who in turn think that it is their brilliance, rather than the United States and its people, that made them so wealthy.

    I'm not in favor of taxing all income above $100,000 like some people are. I realize that the wealthiest Americans do need an incentive to take chances and do the things they do that help create much of this wealth. That's what separates me from them, however. People such as myself recognize that the rich have a role to play in our society. Too many wealthy people think that they are the store of the show and everyone else is just a cog in their machine. They don't understand that they benefit from all this infrastructure far more disproportionately than the average person. They are the star basketball player who mistakes their own talent for being the entire game while ignoring the importance of the rest of the team, the manager, the coaches, the trainers, the owner, the stadium workers, and the fans.

The reality is, the poor and the rich are all pieces of the same American machine and it's time for the rich to recognize that and quit resisting paying their fair share in taxes.

15,825 views 21 replies
Reply #1 Top
I don't have the time to discuss point by point on your piece "The problem with rich people". I look forward to responding with a thoughtful reply soon. However, could you please define the terms "rich, wealthy" and "fair" (as in paying their fair share in taxes)? My problem with the left is not specific differences on policies or opinions, but rather the constant painting of Americans with ambiguous terms as "rich" and "fair". Why does the Left assume it has the divine interpretation of these terms, and further, why should the country as a whole accept the presupposition that these terms should even be in play?

Thanks,

R. Oresteen
Wheaton, IL
Reply #2 Top
"These are not things created by rich people. They were created by all of us."

Not so. You are just taking the "did it on their own" premise and applying it to a system funded *by* the comfortable people in our society. It took the taxes of the wealthy to create those services, most of whom benefited *nil* from them.

When people say they want rid of Federal income tax, don't impose the idea that they are trying to do away with services mainly funded at the state and local level. You should look really hard at what your federal tax dollars fund. You might be surprised how little it involves itself in your bullet list and how much your local sales, utility, and property taxes are involved. I get so sick of the patently false idea that the federal government is our primary benefactor. Hardly. They spend much more time trying to DIVERT money from returning to the society, and trapping it in the federal sub-culture. Your federal 'social' system helps a lot of worthless bureaucrats and business interests to become wealthy absconding those funds while supposedly dolling them out in the name of the greater good.

"Since federal income taxes, the life expectancy and standard of living of all Americans has risen dramatically"

Your post is full of that kind of faulty logic. You prove no correlation. Your 'Since" is a timeline filled with private advancements in society and medicine. Much of the rest could be accomplished on the local level with no federal government influence at all.

"A strong system of patents and intellectual property laws " ,
"An uncorrupt court system"

Are those supposed to be a joke?

Your points could be valid if you are saying that a socialized system is responsible for a huge, barely comfortable lower-middle class, but I don't think you can make an plausible argument that those things you list can't be achieved without a federal income tax.


Reply #3 Top
I am lost as to what your article is saying.

I too believe that som people of well to do status believe that they got there through hard work.

They did.

You have to do the hard work to get to where they are, nevertheless part of the reason why they get to be rich is because of chance and people who work for them.

Lets say its 80% hard work, 15 percent chance and 5 percent work from people who are in their company. (give or take pecentage points)
Reply #4 Top
I love you kid. I've read every article you put forth and salivatingly anticipate more. get back to me maybe...we could have some stellar debates.
Reply #5 Top
The rich might not have become wealthy completely on their own, but those services that you've mentioned are also available for the not-so-rich, and the fact that they are not taking advantage of those services makes them look all the more incompetent, especially if we want to pretend that the rich people of the US didn't work hard to make it where they are. By the way, those services, although used by everybody, are only funded by those who pay taxes, not by those who don't, so it does take a person to be reasonably wealthy to take credit for public services. And not every wealthy person in the US is a natural born citizen of the US.
Reply #6 Top
My question to the blogger is if that's the case, why do illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes yet still take advantage of all those bullets usually stay in a poor economic class?
Reply #7 Top
What do you mean by their "fair" share? I'll need to look this up to check the exact numbers but the rich pretty much pay for ALL of the taxes. I believe its something like 80% of taxes come from the wealthiest 2% of the population. The poor actually get paid, the middle class pay a minimal amount, the upper middle class pay a decent chunk while the uber rich fund the bulk of it.
Reply #8 Top
What is your definition of "rich"? And, does it depend on where in the US you live? I know that a salary of $40,000 /year has a different meaning just in different parts of Michigan, not to mention the US. You mention the stat of $100,000. Is that what you call "rich"? If so, there are dozens of subs around here that you would call "rich" but are considered "common" in this part of our state.

And, what prevents people from going into business themselves to become "rich"? How do those people who started out in poverty and slaved away until they became profitable fit into your picture? I just don't understand the point of constantly bashing on and stereotyping the "rich".
Reply #9 Top
Calor,
you've made a nice list of the benefits of American society which allow many individuals to reach their full potential. I agree in general with the arguement that 'rich' people did not make it on their own but through these factors being present. There are some exceptions, but if you assume those who inherited wealth did so through a society which allows this then that covers most of them. What I find missing, as many others have stated, is your definition of fair.

What is fair?

Rich people paying more taxes in direct porportion to their wealth?
Rich people paying more taxes at an increasing proportion as their wealth increases?

I would consider the first to be fair and the second to be biased (i'll avoid the term unfair). The nice thing with the first method is that is does not require someone to define the term 'rich' or the term 'poor'. A system which does not discriminate would be my preference.

Paul.

PS. Not sure what K12 means. Does this mean free education till age 12 or till you finish high school? The latter I hope!
Reply #10 Top
Its till you finish high school (12th grade).

Also, if you are rich, why should you be paying more than what you use so to speak? I mean I can buy the everyone pays a certain ammount weither they use the options provided or not and also the you make more money so you can afford more to give BUT you should not overtax people who have alot to spend in my opinion...
Reply #11 Top
everyone is equal, lets not forget that part. *i think it has been forgotten long ago.....*
Reply #12 Top
One Good thing about the rich people is that they create and provide jobs for us not so rich people. The rich must be paying more taxes than us poor folk. Otherwise where did they get that 87 billion congress passed to help to rebuild Iraq? It sure didn't come from me... Well, maybe a buck or two. Who are we to judge the rich folks? Many wealthy people are very giving as far as donating to charities and the giving of their time in helping to raise money for needy causes. I know for a fact that the people of Palm Beech are very generous and giving. Why is it thet we are always so quick to condemn and so slow to commend?
Reply #14 Top
The ex-presidents' club

Oliver Burkeman and Julian Borger
Wednesday October 31, 2001
The Guardian

It is hard to imagine an address closer to the heart of American power. The offices of the Carlyle Group are on Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington DC, midway between the White House and the Capitol building, and within a stone's throw of the headquarters of the FBI and numerous government departments. The address reflects Carlyle's position at the very centre of the Washington establishment, but amid the frenetic politicking that has occupied the higher reaches of that world in recent weeks, few have paid it much attention. Elsewhere, few have even heard of it.
This is exactly the way Carlyle likes it. For 14 years now, with almost no publicity, the company has been signing up an impressive list of former politicians - including the first President Bush and his secretary of state, James Baker; John Major; one-time World Bank treasurer Afsaneh Masheyekhi and several south-east Asian powerbrokers - and using their contacts and influence to promote the group. Among the companies Carlyle owns are those which make equipment, vehicles and munitions for the US military, and its celebrity employees have long served an ingenious dual purpose, helping encourage investments from the very wealthy while also smoothing the path for Carlyle's defence firms.

But since the start of the "war on terrorism", the firm - unofficially valued at $3.5bn - has taken on an added significance. Carlyle has become the thread which indirectly links American military policy in Afghanistan to the personal financial fortunes of its celebrity employees, not least the current president's father. And, until earlier this month, Carlyle provided another curious link to the Afghan crisis: among the firm's multi-million-dollar investors were members of the family of Osama bin Laden.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,583869,00.html
Reply #15 Top
Apple: How's that relevant? I think I missed something.

The question I must ask: Define rich and define fair share?

The rich, poor, Good, bad, and ugly: We're all interdependant. To think one could do it without the other is purely ludacris. You need the rich to provide jobs for the poor. The poor provide services so that a few people become rich. No labor, no goods, no profit. No profit, no labor, no goods.

I'm not for having people who make large gross income pay the same as joeuser who barely makes his rent payment and has no 'frill' expenses.
Nor do I agree with making the upper class pay so much they can't afford the same rent as joeuser.

Balance is the only option. Good luck finding it! Everyone wants to point fingers and feel exempt from the evil. We all participate in it. Suck it up and move on.
Reply #16 Top
Don't mislabel people as unfeeling. The rich are just painfully aware of how much of their insane taxation actually ends up in these services, as opposed to being siphoned off by career politicians with basically no accountability. I'm not wealthy at all, and I have come into contact with folks who's income is pretty basically all 'pork'.

At the state and local level there is more ability for people to oversee where their money goes, and punish those who abuse it. Again, people need to look at what the problem is, Federal Income Tax. If you want to make the wealthy comfortable with paying 50+% of their income in taxes, then you have to assure them that their money is spent for those services they claim to be collected for. Who can blame the rich for not wanting to donate their money to other wealthy people who govern (steal) instead of work?
Reply #17 Top
minimus, you cant really define fair; it used to mean "equal" but now, its just a word thats a little worse than good...
Reply #18 Top
Instead of critiquing the analysis of your argument, Calor, I shall attempt to negate the principles behind your argument, i.e you bulleted points.

1. The world's largest single language common market. If I'm not mistaken, English is not the world's most spoken language. A quick Google search indicates that Chinese and Spanish are the most spoken languages in the world. Moreover, English's demand and popularity are getting to the point that accessing tools to learn the language is getting easier, not harder, by the day. Therefore, your premise fails on two accounts - not only is it factually lagging, but it is also your interpretation of the meaning behind it lags.

2. The world's largest, most educated single work force. Again, I disagree. First, how do you measure 'educated.' If we were to use a universal measure of literacy, then you statement is incorrect. According to the United Nation's literacy rates, we are not the most literate nation. There are several countries, including many European countries where English is not their first language, that beat the US literacy rates. It may be assumed, then, that their work force is equally educated if not better.

3. Free K-12 education. Several developed countries offer this. Moreover several developed countries also offer free college education. Also consider that K-12 education provided by the state is not always of the best quality across the country. Therefore, if your argument is that because of free state education, the rich get richer, your method of thinking may be flawed.

4. Low income help for college students. Relative to most countries, I would agree with you that this is a fair point. However, since this is an opportunity provided to all, equally, how does it favor one group over another?

5. A relatively safe environment to live and work. Again, for the most part you have a fair point. However, I don't understand how this breeds your argument. Many countries have a safe working and living environment. In fact, I would argue that many have a safer environment considering our crime rate and gun abuse rate. An easy example is Canada where crime rates are a fraction of the US crime rates.

6. A stable government that attracts foreign investment. I'm not sure if it is our government that attracts foreign investment as opposed to the opportunities that may be realized if one invested here as opposed to elsewhere. Many governments, thankfully, are on becoming more stable. Indeed there is less for a foreign investor in a country where the government is stable, however that may not be the sole reason.

7. An uncorrupt court system. You have got be out of your mind. The US court system is far from uncorrupt. It is influenced by political ideology left and right. This topic may be discussed on a whole new blog.

8. A strong sytem of patents and intellectual property laws. Again, I disagree. The system favors those who might submit their application first. You may have come up with a similar innovation, but were 2 minutes late in filing for the patent. Guess what happens? You lose your millions of dollars of research and development. This is one of the huge downsides to the US patent system. Moreover, some laws on software and other products need to be more specific. The current system allows for minor changes in an item and being able to obtain a patent for it. Again, this topic may be discussed on a whole new blog.

9. A reasonably healthy work force. Reasonably healthy indeed. The trend, however, is towards obesity and heart disease. Yet again how do you measure this? Several other countries have much higher life expectancies, if you use the universal indicator of a healthy populace.

10. A work force that is able and willing to move for employers. This is provided for by the open system of the country. Citizens of several other countries are just as able and willing to move for employers. In fact, with the growing interrelated global workforce, the labor force may, if it chooses - regardless of where it's from - move to whereever it is accepted.

Your points may be well taken if they are that the rich should appreciate their country more. But only you need to provide evidence that they do not. Simply paying taxes means nothing, considering how much is wasted. Why should I pay more taxes when the corrupt politicians want to simply waste my tax dollars in pork barrel and other selfish motives?

Finally, I too request that you define 'fair' please.
Reply #19 Top
It appears that most of the responders use chop logic to avoid the main issue here. The glaring fact is that none of you would be blogging if you were on a Calcutta street begging for a food; surely you would not have a laptop with you.
Reply #20 Top
Hey come on, there are many ways in which a person is taxed, not just financialy. And no one is taxed like the middle and lower classes. The constant stress of making ends meet while hoping a major expense (an illness in the family or costly repair job) doesn't put one out in the street, is a very taxing way to live. I agree a lot with Calor's editorial. No one suffers like those caught in the bind of living hand-to-mouth whilest making the richest 2% richer.
Reply #21 Top
You have some good points, but you could make your argument more powerful with more comparisons to other countries. Scandinavia has few wealthy people because of high taxes. Although the court system isn't perfect, compared to Mexico, for instance, it is far less corrupt, etc.