The Ideology System

Some Thoughts

from GalCiv4 Forums

In my opinion this system has room for improvement in regards to making it more intuitive to players. This is because some of the options are not ideologies. For example innovation and compassion are not ideologies, they are traits/attributes. Also, while the stats might make it somewhat clear why a trait is exclusive to an ideology, it's name does not. For example, I think the majority of players will look at the name 'Prestige' before looking at its stats and wonder why it's exclusive to the 'Authority' ideology.

Also, I think we're going to have to iterate on which options go where. For example currently you can't choose both influence and research. Are you sure you want to make these mutually exclusive? Could the player have the choice of focusing on e.g. influence and research at the expense of military?

Are you open to adding more ideology spectrums into the game? For example:

Oligarchic vs Theocratic vs Technocratic vs Monarchic/Imperial

How about an option to be non-ideological with choices that focus on reason, logic and rationality? Maybe there are some species that are simply incapable of being ideological? These species could be locked out of ideological options but have some fun, interesting and competitive non-ideological options.

Below I've made some changes to some of the ideology names and some of the trait names in an attempt to make them more intuitive to the player. I know you're probably going to cringe at the names I've chosen, I'm no expert at this, but hopefully these changes make enough sense to illustrate my point. I have no doubt that you guys will come up with better names ;)  

 

Liberty vs Authority Decentralization vs Centralization

Liberty Decentralization:

  • Self-Governance- +10% Approval on colonies
  • Mobility Rights- +2 Starbase Range
  • Free Trade- Grants a free freighter and Trader citizen
  • Free Markets- +10% Income
  • Private Ownership- Starbases no longer pay maintenance
  • Enterprise- -25% Colony and Asteroid decay

 

 Authority Centralization:

  • Iron Fist - +10 Control
  • Prestige War games - Double Ship Experience
  • Service Favors/bribes/political kickbacks - Soldiers generate approval
  • Discipline- Can rush multiple times a turn
  • Watchful- Fleets inside our borders receive an escort fighter
  • Threatening Conscription - 3 free transports
  • Dangerous- Transports get escort fighters

 

Opportunity vs Equality Equal Opportunity vs Equality of Outcome

Opportunity Equal opportunity:

  • ·   Ambition- Leaders cost less to hire
  • ·   Recruiting- Reduced cooldown to recruit leaders
  • ·   Incentives- +10 Loyalty for Leaders
  •     Celebrate Talent- +5% Approval for X turns after recruiting a Leader
  •     Ruling Class Merit - Leaders cost even less to hire
  •     Poaching Compelling offer - When you capture a Core World you also get their governor  

 

Equality Equality of Outcome:

  • ·   Commune- +15% Growth
  •      Representation Diversity hires - +10% Approval for Colonists
  •      Generational Homes- +2 Population capacity
  •      Shared Purpose Directed purpose - +1 citizens Resolve
  •      Happy Workers Workers Party - Planets with over 50% Approval get +10% Manufacturing
  •      Hope Expectation - Planets with over 50% Approval get +10% Income

 

Tradition vs Innovation Cultural Exceptionalism/ vs Innovation

Tradition Cultural Exceptionalism:

  • ·   Sacred History Devotion - +50% Homeworld Influence
  •     Devotion Dogma - +10% Approval for Cleric citizens
  •     Code of Law Bureaucratic State - Adds an additional Policy slot
  •     Alluring Propaganda - All Starbases generate influence
  •     Radiant Narrative Control - +10% Influence
  •     Lorekeepers- Gain 3 free Cleric citizens
  •     Dogma Indoctrination - Immune to Culture Flipping 

 

Innovation- Research:

  • ·   Eureka- +5% Approval for X turns after discovering a new Tech
  •     Deep Research- +3 research when surveying an anomaly
  •     Focus on Education- Gain 3 free Scientist citizens
  •     Breakthrough- +150 Research
  •     Logic- +1 citizen Intelligence
  •     Revere Respect Science- +10% Approval for Scientist citizens
  •     Quantum Leap- +10% Research

 

Compassion vs Cruelty Pragmatism

Compassion:

  • Kindness- Approval bonus based on the players Compassion awareness
  • Charity- -10% Crime
  • Caregiver Sustainability - -10% Pollution
  • Humility - +2 Diplomacy
  • Favored - Anyone at war with us suffers a 10% Approval Penalty
  • Popular - Factions that declare war on us anger other civs
  • Consensus - All civilizations declare war on anyone who invades our homeworld 

 

Cruelty Pragmatism:

  • Intimidating - +5 Intimidation
  • Callous Disregard Pragmatic - +10% Manufacturing, -2% Approval
  • Military Reverence Hawks - +3 Soldiers, Warforged Favor
  • Ruthless Military focus - +20% Soldiering
  • Attrition- -25% hit points for enemy ships in our borders
  • Bloodthirsty War machine - +1% Approval per conquered planet

 

Transparency vs Secrecy

Transparency:

  • Amiable- +1 Diplomacy
  • Negotiators- +1 Diplomatic Capital per turn
  • Shrewd- +25% Credits in Trade
  • Trustworthy- +1 citizen Social
  • Fair Traders- +2 Diplomacy with civilizations we have trade routes with
  • Reliable- Other races will trade more favourably with us  

 

Secrecy:

  • Silver Tongue - +5 Deception
  • Criminal Ties- Ally with the Pirates
  • Darkness - Enemy ships in our borders are -1 to Sensor Range and Moves
  • Paranoia - All of our Leaders are Paranoid (lol, so in practice what does this actually mean? What are the in-game consequences of this?)
  • Crime Lords- 3 free Diplomat leaders and +3% global crime
  • Hidden Agenda- No one will declare war on us for the next 50 turns

 

 Diversity vs Harmony Cultural integration vs Indigenous Culture

Diversity Cultural integration:

  • Flexible- +2% to Income, Research and Manufacturing
  • Inviting- 3 free random species citizens on your homeworld
  • Adaptable- Gain 2 tiles on every planet
  • Cultural Appreciation- +20% Tourism
  • Acceptance- No Approval penalty for mixed species
  • Enticing - All planets and starbases within our influence join us (this is going to be a very difficult choice to resist taking lol) 

 

Harmony Indigenous Culture:

  • Unification- +15% Approval to your homeworld
  • Shared Belief Values - +20% Resistance
  • Preferred Culture - +10% Approval for our civ species, -5% approval for other species
  • Unique Voice - Civilizations that declare war on us anger other civilizations
  • Core of the Empire Heart of the civilization - +30% Manufacturing on our homeworld
  • Crown of the Empire Jewel of the Civilization - +30% Income on our homeworld

14,024 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock.net Forums Top

Paranoid leaders will leave a planet when conquered instead of staying and being captured. There's a lot of things still yet to be implemented that is tied into the ideologies.

A lot of this seems to be based in personal preferences. We're not looking to add more ideologies though we'll likely keep tweaking effects and some names for specific unlocks.

Reply #2 from Stardock.net Forums Top

Thanks for taking the time to write this.  I tended to keep the categories more generic because they need to be used as bonuses for events and decisions too. Something like "Harmony" can be used broadly, where "Indigenous Cultures" is very specific. Specific is good for the ideology screen, but bad when I'm trying to hook it up to other systems.

The thing I dislike most (and you changed it too) is "Cruelty" as an ideology. "Cruelty" isn't an aspiration of any real civilization and we want all of these to be things that are real cultural goals. We are really talking about how much your empire values making its citizens healthy and happy even when it interferes with more practical goals.

Pragmatism does a good job of being the opposite of Compassion, but it's not quite right. "Callous" was the other thing I considered. Hard Hearted? I couldn't find anything I really liked, which is why I stuck with Cruelty, which isnt a value but at least is flavorful. 

We want something that means, "I know people aren't going to like it, but we can't risk sending rescue workers into the colony. We have to let those people die."

Im going to steal some of your trait renames, thank you!

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from GalCiv4 Forums Top

Quoting DerekPaxton, reply 2

The thing I dislike most (and you changed it too) is "Cruelty" as an ideology. "Cruelty" isn't an aspiration of any real civilization and we want all of these to be things that are real cultural goals. We are really talking about how much your empire values making its citizens healthy and happy even when it interferes with more practical goals.

Pragmatism does a good job of being the opposite of Compassion, but it's not quite right. "Callous" was the other thing I considered. Hard Hearted? I couldn't find anything I really liked, which is why I stuck with Cruelty, which isnt a value but at least is flavorful. 

We want something that means, "I know people aren't going to like it, but we can't risk sending rescue workers into the colony. We have to let those people die."

End of DerekPaxton's quote

Might I suggest Ruthlessness?  Or perhaps Detachment?  Contempt?  Or even Oblivion, if you want to get all dramatic.

Reply #4 from Stardock.net Forums Top

"Logic" would be a great nod to Vulcan ideology. It often looks cruel to outsiders but they don't let emotion cloud their judgement. Granted, that doesn't really fit with the current Cruelty trait names.

Reply #5 from GalCiv4 Forums Top

Quoting DerekPaxton, reply 2

Thanks for taking the time to write this. I tended to keep the categories more generic because they need to be used as bonuses for events and decisions too. Something like "Harmony" can be used broadly, where "Indigenous Cultures" is very specific. Specific is good for the ideology screen, but bad when I'm trying to hook it up to other systems.
End of DerekPaxton's quote

 

Ahhh I see. Thank you for explaining. It's great to get some insight into the thought processes of a developer, it really helps collaboration :)

 


Quoting DerekPaxton, reply 2

The thing I dislike most (and you changed it too) is "Cruelty" as an ideology. "Cruelty" isn't an aspiration of any real civilization and we want all of these to be things that are real cultural goals. We are really talking about how much your empire values making its citizens healthy and happy even when it interferes with more practical goals.

Pragmatism does a good job of being the opposite of Compassion, but it's not quite right. "Callous" was the other thing I considered. Hard Hearted? I couldn't find anything I really liked, which is why I stuck with Cruelty, which isnt a value but at least is flavorful. 

We want something that means, "I know people aren't going to like it, but we can't risk sending rescue workers into the colony. We have to let those people die."
End of DerekPaxton's quote

 

What about 'Sacrifice'? It has that emotive impact you're looking for while simultaneously conveying to the player that a difficult choice had to be made.


Quoting DerekPaxton, reply 2

Im going to steal some of your trait renames, thank you!
End of DerekPaxton's quote

 

Haha no problem :grin: I honestly wasn't sure what sort of reception my post would get so I am pleasantly surprised that you actually found some value in it!

 

Reply #6 from GalCiv4 Forums Top

Despotism could replace Cruelty in your case. It reflects all aspects mentioned because despotism doesn't involve to be cruel or unfair, but leans on the fact that you trust above all in yourself to take the right decision and that you're able to use of authority to impose your choice when everybody else reject it even though your choice is the most pragmatic, the most sensible.

I don't know in english speaking culture, but in french, in the collective unconscious, despotism gives a real feeling of rejection due to the fact that you're are alone to decide without having to take care about others' opinions or to be empathic (what is not necessarily true) what is antagonistic to compassion