It definitely sounds like a spyware component has somehow infected your computer. You might try looking in your add and remove programs section for any unknown program. You might also check your msconfig for any unknown programs. If you don't have a firewall to protect you from ActiveX components, this may also be a culprit(as someone mentioned before). If you find out what it is, I'm sure we would all be interested to know about it.

Check this out... go to my site at:
http://www.joetheblow.com

Do that a few times during the day and if you get a pop up it is definaitly something on your system because there are no pop ups on my page at all.


Also just before the ad comes up take note of thw URL where it is coming from just before it loads. That might give you a clue as to what is doing the deed.

It definitely sounds like a spyware component has somehow infected your computer. You might try looking in your add and remove programs section for any unknown program. You might also check your msconfig for any unknown programs. If you don't have a firewall to protect you from ActiveX components, this may also be a culprit(as someone mentioned before). If you find out what it is, I'm sure we would all be interested to know about it.

Already did that. I have nothing installed that should not be. Downloaded Sybot search and destroy and updated it. It found no spyware.

Legolas Legolas!! I emailed Gator yeah? telling them that they install spyware on machines, and...other stuff too. And this is the response I got:

Mr Siona;

Are you referring to a Verisign Prompt? Does this offer that you are
seeing have three buttons at the bottom; Yes, No, or More Info?

In reference to your question on 'Spyware', The Gator Corporation programs
are not Spyware because The Gator Corporation's Privacy Policy
specifically and clearly states how and why our programs must contact the
server, what information is collected, and how it is used; and, users must
review and accept The Gator Corporation's Privacy Policy and End User
License Agreement before our programs are downloaded to the users computer
(i.e. explicit, informed, consent is received by The Gator Corporation;
please refer to The Gator Corporation's Privacy Policy at
http://www.gatorcorporation.com/help/privacystatement.html for more
information).

The Gator Corporation believes it does not meet any reasonable Spyware
definition because of the following factors:

· Up front, full, plain language disclosure: The Gator Corporation
clearly states what will be collected from the user and why this must
happen in the privacy policy.

· No Unnecessary Information Gathering: as per the privacy policy, we do
not know who you are and we know nothing about you personally. We do not
store personally identifiable information or use it in any way. The
information that is collected is clearly spelled out in the policy.

· Formal Online Privacy Statement: located at
http://www.gatorcorporation.com/help/privacystatement.html

· Preemptive Request for Consent: The installation of any GAIN supported
application(s) is disclosed prior to the installation, at which time a
user may simple opt not to install the application(s).

· All GAIN supported applications are easily removable via the
application's uninstaller and or the Windows Add/Remove Programs Control
Panel. A few minutes after all GAIN applications have been uninstalled,
the GAIN software is designed to self uninstall.

Rex
Gator Corp.

lmao what bull****

(goes to email them the link that sig101 gave us)

(What I sent back): Oh shut up. We all know what you really are. We all know you're in conjunction with the whole anti-p2p thing going on. Go to this link and see for yourself. We're not stupid.

http://www.spywareinfo.com/newsletter/archives/august-2002/08282002.html

And check out this one too:

http://www.alanluber.com/pcfearfactor/officiagatorpage.htm

You people are using illegal methods to convey your software, in order to allow 'whoever' to monitor people's systems, in terms of what they have on their machine, and what actions they make take on the Internet. Unless you have hard proof that you do NOT do any of this to the slightest, I have not reason to believe you, and will try my fullest to sue your company off.

Uh...could someone tell me how I could sue a company? - lol

They replied:

Mr Siona;

This looks like someone else's software, called "SpywareBlaster". This is
not a GAIN supported application. (You might note that it is also entirely
possible that they don't realize that our applications are not spyware, so
they may misidentify them as such.) If you are having difficulties
uninstalling that application, you will need to contact their support
department. As a tip, when uninstalling applications, do *not* move,
delete, or use a third party uninstaller prior to uninstalling them
properly.

Also, in regard to your previous email, if you see one of the Verisign
Prompts and click Yes, it will install the GAIN supported application. If
you do not want the GAIN supported application, do NOT click yes.
(Remember that our applications can only be installed from the local
system, and they can only be uninstalled from there; we can't do either
from our end.)

Rex
Gator Corp.

I sent him a screenshot of my desktop showing me using that SpywareBlaster thing, and I think he misunderstood why I was showing him it. It seems he thought I was telling him that SpywareBlaster is apart of GAIN, so what i'll do now is send one back calling him a stupid T**t, and that he should look at what the spywareblaster is SHOWING (it shows varients of GAIN spyware stuff). Thanks for those who gave me the link to that software btw, very useful.

Then I said

No you stupid t**t. Did I say that spywareblaster was apart of GAIN? - no. look at what spywareblaster is SHOWING - as you can see, this application surfaces Spyware programs and clears them off my pc. It shows in the list, a Gator variant. That's solid proof that. And I have NEVER come across a prompt asking me if i wanna intall your stupid Gator s**t, I know this because i'm the only person who uses my PC, and I have a logger telling me all the programs i've downloaded off the Internet (that were prompted) And you know what? yup you guessed it, Gator isn't in the list.

(Am I boring everyone? 'cos no one seems to be posting replies...Want me to stop emailing Gator?)

Well there's not much point in it, frankly. They know what it is they've done through the years. And they're well known among the internet privacy antispyware community. Which is why so many antispyware apps have listed Gator as spyware for years. And they are well aware of that.

Now what the Gator rep is talking is informed consent; that is, a person is advised of the download and can opt in or out. That is, he's saying that if someone consciously allows "spyware" on his PC it is not "spyware." Well, that's hairsplitting over the use of a word, not the actual function. The important thing is whether or not they advise the person what Gator is, what it does and that there is an opportunity to decline download and installation.

Now at one time their downloads would install themselves without a prompt, thus without a PC user's permission. (Perhaps some still do? Did you get bitten by a stealth download?) And I think it may also be bundled with other software. Either way, there should still be an advisory to the user about what it does and the user should be allowed to decline installation. According to the old article I posted Gator was supposedly cleaning up its act, at least providing the user a prompt to allow or disallow installation. (Which is what Kona saw.) So the user has to consent although I wonder how many who do have a clue what they're doing or what the app does.

(Although some marketers/vendors have tried to claim that users having low security settings in their browsers was tantamount to a websurfer's implict consent to having their crap download and install itself. I saw a rep from eAnthology StopSign try that line on a security forum and it was not well received as he was informed that no doubt antispyware apps would soon be targeting their product as they now do.)

Anyway, if you did receive a stealth download of Gator (no prompt and it didn't come with software you installed with a advisory that you had to consent to prior to installation of Gator), that's another matter. If that's the case, you may wish to politely advise them of this "oversight" on their part so they can correct it and not inflict it on other unsuspecting net surfers, since this is against their publicly stated policy. (Since they say they don't do this anymore.) You could also post in the spywarinfo site's forum (the site that had the article I linked to) if you wish to let people know if stealth downloads are indeed still going on. But again, Gator is already targeted by antispyware apps.

But the main defense is prevention...through tighter browser settings so downloads can not be allowed without at least a prompt. Disable the two download on demand settings in I think advanced IE settings. Download on demand is only useful to people who want to foist stuff onto your machine. I have ActiveX set to prompt but also use Proxomitron to filter my websurfing from ads, popups and other things. Using a popup/ad killer eliminates a lot of this stuff from even loading on the webpages you see when you surf since they're frequently associated with banner ads and popups or popunders. Now I've also got SpywareBlaster which prevents a number of spyware downloads also while using no resources. Just need to check for updates occasionally. (SpywareGuard is a real time antispyware monitor by the same author. It's also freeware, although the author happily accepts donations too.)

Thanks for all that info sig101, it's made me alot more conscious. The thing is, you seem to know what you're doing, and what software to use, and where to get that software FROM. Where as me, an amateur user, I need to be shown what to do often and I don't hold much knowledge of all this "ActiveX" control. If you could post or direct me to a page where it has clear instructions on how to configure the browser to how your browser is, I'd deeply appreciate it. thanks.

Rep's getting cheesed off:

Mr Siona;

That means nothing, as previously explained, and for the reasons
mentioned. Nor does it help, making personal attacks, as that won't help
you any. (Most support departments will simply delete emails that contain
personal attack. We don't, simply because we care about our users.)

Users receive Gator Advertising and Information Network (GAIN), which
delivers advertising and information messages with GAIN branding, only if
they choose to download or use free software or Web services that are part
of GAIN. Upfront disclosure that products are affiliated with GAIN is
given in every occurrence. It is not possible to get a GAIN affiliated
application installed on a computer system via an authorized distribution
channel without being given the opportunity to review The Gator
Corporation Privacy Statement and End User License Agreement, and
affirmatively accepting those documents. Those documents make clear that
the application is part of the GAIN Network.

Additionally, consumers must give their direct permission and accept these
software products or services, before they can receive GAIN. Consumers can
enjoy a variety of free Web site content and free software applications
that deliver a service or information in exchange for permission to
display advertising messages.

To view a list of products that are part of GAIN and installed on the
computer you are currently using you can go to:

http://www.gatorcorporation.com/help/uninstallinfo.html

Alternately, with GAIN version 3.2 or higher, you can also view a list of
products that are part of GAIN and installed on the computer by clicking
on the Windows Start button, selecting Programs, GAIN, and then About
GAIN.

When the About GAIN window opens, click on the What is GAIN tab, and then
on the link in the "You can only receive GAIN messages by downloading a
GAIN supported product or service" paragraph to see a list of GAIN
supported applications that are detected as being installed.

A few minutes after all GAIN applications have been uninstalled (via the
Windows Add / Remove Programs Control Panel or the application's Program
Group uninstall option), the GAIN software is designed to self uninstall.

Note: This process can take several minutes - restarting your computer
after uninstalling all GAIN supported applications can expedite the GAIN
self uninstall process.

Rex
Gator Corp.

Should I just give up? Does this guy know what Gator really are or..? I dunno. He certainly does thinks he's it doesn't he.
.... Man I.. HATE GAIN....F***ing GAIN..

Replied back...

And why doesn't the application come with an uninstall component? like normal programs do. And listen, don't think I'm just some enraged individual emphasising on you. There are many others.

The only thing that slightly annoys me, 'Rex' is that, like my well-informed friend said, Gator doesn't quite inform the user fully what the application actually does. Now you're caught out on the "Oh we're not spyware" bull**** since a reliable ANTI-SPYWARE has surfaced a Gator Variant on my system! Evidentally, this is an illegal component which violates the whole End User Rights thing, and you guys are probably only sending an actual 'useless' application with it just to compensate the suspiscioun of the spyware component itself. And since you've fallen victim to an unexplanatory position (in that you keep on repeating the same freakin' thing in every E-mail you send me,) I think it would be appropriate to admit to everyone what Gator actually is, and fully explain everything that comes along with Gator / GAIN. All I'm trying to do here, Rex is point out the truth (with a slight satisfaction I might add), that's all. I'm not attacking you with any threats or insults, if you are upset on my understandable annoyance, that's simply down to how you interpret it. I'm not asking you for help, I'm asking you to tell me the truth regardless of how polite you do it.

Seiph.

What do you think? think I over did it a li'l there? or..?

I think you kicked his but. Keep it up. In fact I might even help you.

Actually, you did NOT 'kick his butt', but have launched into a hiding to nowhere.

The tone and accuracy of your information put you on the losing end of the argument...and I'd be genuinely praising the conduct of your respondent....who has not stooped to name-calling and similar pursuits.

Gator is legally entitled to collect and process information since [in theory] the enduser of these products accepts the EULA conditions.  Provided there is full disclosure of the conditions...and it is deemed legally appropriate for a person of your age to enter into this agreement then by clicking 'yes' you are consenting to this 'snooping'.

Spyware traditionally is of the 'hidden intention' type where the info gathering capabilities are concealed from the user.

My recommendation would be to delete the proggy [if you haven't already] and apologise to the Gator PR representative for calling him 'names'...

oh...ok

Jafo's point is correct: if users are given sufficient info about the program and are given a chance to accept or decline a download and install, there's really not anything to complain about to the vendor/company. If a user doesn't read the terms of use and any other info that may have been provided and installs the product that can't be blamed on the company. And as long as an uninstall option is available, it should be used.

There are a number of apps that collect tracking info, etc for marketing, advertising purposes. Some freeware apps do contain this sort of "spyware." There's nothing illegal about it especially as long as the user opts into this and it's clear that this is what the app does. A number of outfits have cleaned up their acts, under pressure from antispyware folks, providing opt in/opt out options for potential users. Apparently Gator is one of them. But once a company/product gets on a spyware list and is targeted by antispyware apps, it's pretty much "branded."

What's truly reprehensible is when there is no notice and stealth installs are accomplished without the user's consent as in the eAnthology case I mentioned above. Technically it wasn't primarily a spyware app, but this was a vendor foisting his software on people who never knowingly consented to an install. Stealth installs are what you can complain about, whether it's spyware or not. SurferBar is a recent app on the scene that apparently actually uses an exploit and a trojan to install itself. But these can be prevented by taking some care to secure your browser as I said.

Here's a site a University professor first put together for his students, but it's grown considerably from its initial use. It has info about all sorts of things relating to internet security and privacy and links to other sites and programs. There's a section on browser configuration for different browsers that should be helpful. http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/main-nf.htm

Some people disable ActiveX entirely in IE, but then you'll find a number of sites won't completely work right. So the tighter your browser settings are the more awkward you may find it using some sites. The key is to find what's right for you while still maintaining some basic security better than the default settings. As I said at least disable install on demand in IE Advanced settings. You get there by opening on your top bar, Tools, Internet Options, Advanced tab. And installing SpywareBlaster also helps. Just keep it updated.



[Message Edited]

heck...

Bet people would freak to learn that Logitech mouse drivers come with a Backdoor built into the driver under the guise of being a needed component amoung others.

BackWeb / Western Digital DLGLI.EXE - Installed by Western Digital Data Lifeline among others. Purports to monitor your hard drive for problems, but is suspected of being a vehicle for displaying unwanted advertisements as well. ***More recently, Backweb was caught installing along with Logitech mouse drivers (!)*** (Do you really need web-update for ****ing mouse drivers?)


such as:

Radlight DivX Movie Player - The nature of the software itself is unknown. However, it will intentionally search out and delete AD-Aware from your hard drive, then dump a number of malware products on your system. This puts it on the level of a VIRUS in my book; such a behaviour is completely unacceptable.

or the following...

"Backdoor Santas"
Non-stealth "freeware" and shareware apps that may transmit personal information or expose your computer to attack, under the pretense of providing a useful service.

Download Demon / Real Download / Netscape Smart Download (same/similar programs)
Comet Cursor

RealJukebox See this article by Richard Smith.

Alexa, Zbubbles See this article. An Alexa representative asserts that the company "no longer
receives any personal information as of early 2000".

Microsoft Windows Registration Wizard

DigitalConvergence (DigitalDemographics) C.R.Q. software, CueCat barcode scanner

NBCi QuickClick (tm) - See MSNBC article.

Gator, Offer Companion, Trickler (FSG.EXE / fsg-ag.exe)@ - Installed by (EVERYTHING!) - Including AudioGalaxy

Want a link to help keep on top of these things?
http://www.cexx.org/adware.htm

if anyone is interested...


fwiw



[Message Edited]

It happened to me again! I just got done doing a dirty install thanks to a slip up in Litestep and there it goes on WC! that gain gator crap!

It has to be coming from here because after I reinstalled 98 this is where I came first. My browser has no other history, it is a clean slate.

No....you'll only think you are clean because nothing was found...that does not mean that nothing is there. Gator did not come from this website...

No....you'll only think you are clean because nothing was found...that does not mean that nothing is there. Gator did not come from this website...

where did it come from then? I just did a reinstall of the OS and a reinstall of all the updates. This is the only site I have been on ALL day. Ad aware and sybot both say my PC are clean. And of course they both are updated.

Damn... maybe if I do a clean install you will believe me?

BTW LiteStep is the reason I had to do a dirty install > so now I am using nextstart

PS Paul is there a chance i could get a copy of your current sysmetrix theme? I love the look of a simple clock with other things imbedded in the face.

clean install, means you formatted the drive correct?

Also, what drivers are you loading? ANy CD's with drivers on them?

Gator and some others were added to many OEM CD's and also Driver CD's...

read that web link I posted, you will be shocked just who played in that game not to long ago... and still does for that matter

Also, what drivers are you loading? ANy CD's with drivers on them?

Dell drivers. Any other drivers are from Microsoft.

mmmm, you saving emailbox for outlook or OExpress?

Your notsetting up your email acount and connecting to it before you connect online to any web sites?

Might not be deleting your email from your ISP email server and when you connect the first time it downloads emails, and if you do not have scripts turned off, it could be loading a pif, scr or some such as soon as O/OE browses the first email in the browser pain?

All depends on what you refer to as a 're-install'. From formatted disk then you 'could' be inadvertently installing this proggy from a 'dirty' driver installer.
If it's just a case of re-installing over an existing formatted drive then the chances are it's just still on the drive/registry/startup etc. Just because a 'checker' claims you are clean does not guarantee you are clean...