Visual Style quality over time

With the rise in the number of skinners your bound to see more average skins.More new skinners with undeveloped skills.They(most) get better with experience.My first WB wasnt too good till I updated it several times to remove the ugly.You also start to see more recurring themes and styles.

It is daunting sometimes to keep up with all the features available but people expect skins to be complete and applaud each new capability.Thats what its all about.

Well, I'm pretty vocal about my feelings on it, as you know.
I think the quality of skins is poor compared to the 'old days', as it were.

Although when it comes right down to it, if I want a skin made the way I'd like, I would do it myself.
Most people make for themselves, then upload. So there's always going to be someone who moans. (Usually me...)

I would prefer a Quality simple skin over a Mediocre complex one any day.
Many of the skins I like to run are somewhat dated, but they are fast and clean.
Keeping it simple is keeping it real.

As Hippy has said, the skinners make the skins for themselves so a lot of people will be upset because it's not the way they want it. From what I see, there are a couple hand fulls of skinners that produce quality skins even if people don't like them for some reason. Then you have a ton of new people getting into skinning that need the time to develope so their skins might not be as high of quality as the rest.But in time they will be ,if they stick to it, producing quality skins.

Personally, from outside working on coming in I see it a bit different maybe?

I think that the evolution of the application for GUI design face an up hill fight against those who are established in the arena because it gives those who have not paid the price the ability to jump in feet dry and climb out totally soaked in a shorter period of time without paying their dues.

At the same time some lend to this perception because they depend completely on an applications abilities and never grasp the concept beyond what a mouse click, drag, drop and paste allows them to do.

In my personal opinion it is not the tools, their (the tools) abilities or lack of abilities, but the person who makes use of them. Do they seek to expand their skill set to make use of the tools complete abilities and or beyond them or do they use them to do enough to stamp their name on something and say "hey look what I did"

When I draw or paint some will comment on something in a positive nature and will be dumb founded or think I am seeking more kudos because I look and see where I can make it better, or find where I failed to do something justice.

For me it seems to all boil down to Ego...

ergo I go

not going to post but going to keep up reading this one...

need more threads along similar lines

Oh, ditto Mr WOM and mr Hippy cha dudes!

mm, there is a difference between a carpenter and a craftsman so to speak.

I think there are probably as many, if not a bit more high quality skins as there used to be; except that there are A LOT more poorer quality skins. Skinning used to be somewhat of a niche; it still is, but to a lot lesser degree. Now, a lot more people want to be 1337 and try their hand at making a wacky skin.

It's more a case that in the beginning....even a blue swirlie was new and original....as with a Bryce dolphin jumping [without splash] over a palm tree.....even THAT was new and refreshing........ONCE...

Same goes for skinning in general.  Years down the track it's a bit of the same-old-same-old, where there is a sea of mediocrity [of original thought], but still a wealth of quality innovated through added feature/s to be had for those willing to seek it/them....

I remember that skin! What a difference a day makes!

paxx hit the nail on the head...there are as many good skins as before, just way more poor ones.

As for skinning WB becoming more an more time consuming...that's exactly why I quit skinning. I just couldn't keep interest in a skin long enough to finish one. When I first started skinning WB I could whip out a good quality complete skin in 2 days. At this point, for me to make a complete skin it would take me weeks. I just don't have the time or the focus to keep at one that long. I've have around 15 partially completed skins for almost a year now that I'll never finish.

Lol. I remember old WB days. If someone looks around, he or she will evenally find my very old skin in here, pre-Wincustomize even! I wouldn't recommand it since it's real ugly.

Nowdays I just can't do it due to complexity of it all, even with skin editor.

This one's 3.5 years old....dates back to the origins of the WinAMP 'module'.....a typical fairly early one...with little application for the XP features....as it pre-dated XP and was [naturally] originally set up to complement LiteSTEP so even the Task/start bar was rudimentary.....something that's not really 'good enough' these days....

This is a very intersting thread for someone like me who is relatively new to the world of skinning. I have often dwelved back and looked at some skins that are now three years old and thought - WOW thats a great looking skin. The software used to make a Windowblind has obviously come on leaps and bounds over the years and by this i mean not just programmes like Skin Studio but also Photoshop etc. More and more people are looking at the bland Luna interface and saying to themselves "now lets make this look good". Just like mobile phones to a certain degree - most people want to personalize their ring tones and screen and soon grow tired of the factory provided components.

With this ever increasing popularity and some of the programmes being more 'user friendly' there are bound to be a lot more people wanting to have a go at building something themselves. This is bound to increase the amount of mediocrity floating around but there are some who like the cream will rise to the top and go on to even better and greater things. Likewise there will be great skinners who move onto other interests in life and give up skinning. Its an ever changing world but i suppose one of the greatest advances is the fact that with Skin Studio and a few other bits you can now make your own skin with relative ease. This puts a lot of pressure on Admins who must have to sift through a lot of work some of which is bound to be mediocre to say the least.

If you are looking for ideas to increase the general standard of submissions then why not set up something called "The Workshop" on WC where people can submit their skins for review and suggestions from top authors and admins. This area could get flooded but if, say a few skins are selected each week then it would not be too labour intensive and those who are really interested in learning this "trade" could follow the "work in progress" and gain valuable experience and in turn improve their skills.
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I certainly haven't turned out the number of skins that some have done. Partly it is inspirational blackouts and partly the time involved. It takes an ENORMOUS amount of time to produce a quality skin and I think that this is why things seem to be slowing down. I also agree that the time needed can result in the artist loosing interest before it is completed.

All that said I can not see this art dying. Once you use skins it is hard to quit.

Leo: the creation of the WC skinning messageboard was intended to allow that sort of feedback and assistance among/between users. Whether it's getting used enough for such purposes, I don't know. Naturally it's all voluntary and not particularly structured but the admins and mods have enough specific duties which they take on voluntarily. That some of them also take time to assist folks on these boards on skinning other matters is a tribute to them.

But I recall the major reason messageboard was set aside for skinning issues was for just the the sort of thing you described. (MadIce had a rather long thread here about the subject some months back.) Additionally, come folks hang out on WC chat and find assistance and a collegial atmosphere there also. So there presently are avenues for skinning assistance and feedback. Whether or not skinners and would be skinners avail themselves of such venues is another matter.

sig101......It was just a thought and i was thinking of something which might develop more interest without adding to the already onerous tasks already undertaken by staff and admins.

I would also add that i watched IR and Bones going hammer and tongs on the message board at a skin a month or so ago which was Bone's idea which he asked for help with. It was great watching the two interact albeit i could only see half of what was going on because some of the work and ideas were being exchanged via private mail etc. It was nice to see someone of IR's experience giving his time and experience to help Bones and the end result was a terrific skin which we were all invited to add our own personal logo's too. This was great team effort from the two persons concerned and a superb touch with the logo's. This is what makes this site such a great site in that we are a 'community' and we try to help each other. I just thought i would float my idea of 'The Workshop' to the rest of the community to see if this was something that was worth considering and to see if anyone had any other ideas.

I also participated in something similar a while ago on Neowin on Chaninja's RC5 which was a lot of fun and more importantly i learnt a lot from a very talented author and listened to some excellent imput from many others that took part.
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