Oh i didn't take what you said to be a declaration that skinners weren't real artists at all. I thought your points were very clear. And yes the practices of doing comps for free have been going on for a long time. Skinning and UI design is a very niche field. We also build in our "usage rights" into the costs where other companies might charge usage fees to their clients if they did say a POP-display along with the cost of creating the assets. So it's very much apples and oranges.

I think the young artists should be hungry for work but they also need to make sure they aren't taken advantage of. I think that's where people like myself and you come in. We need to make sure we're available to "council" them if they have questions or we see something that may not feel right here on the message board.

I'm not a stranger to spending my time bidding on a job either. Billy (BBX) and myself spent a lot of time working on a proposal for Yahoo for a project only to not get the job. I am just leery of companies who want spec comps done for free. A company will have more legal assets at their disposal than an amatuer artist. What's to stop a company from taking say a linear comp from an artist, not pay them for the work, tell them they aren't going to hire them and then have maybe have an in-house artist use that comp as a basis for an interface? Nothing. The amateur artist will have little protection unless contracts are signed saying that the artist's work/comp remains the intellectual property of the artist unless paid. I don't see a lot of artists having contracts for that.

You know i just thought of something.... With the large user base here, there are certainly some attorneys out here that could possibly create some templates for artists who need contracts. Some "pro-bono" work to help the community? Maybe they could offer advice once in awhile to artists who have legal questions. Think we should start a thread for that? Maybe get the admins to pin it to the top of the board? Might be a great benefit for all.

TSF,

One of the mechanisms we use when we submit design concepts or samples at no charge is a combined Receipt and Memorandum of Understanding. This document is in effect, a contract which very clearly spells out our claim to reserve all of our rights and explicitly defines the limitations of use of the concept and/or samples by the client in the absence of a subsequent contract. By signing this document, the agent of the client acknowledges receipt of the concept/proposal/samples, and attests that he/she has read and understood our terms of use and agrees to abide by those conditions.

This document has been quite effective in preventing some of the things you describe, such as developing our concept in-house or showing our proposal to one of our competitors in an attempt to get them to underbid us.

As for your idea about the legal advice pro bono thread, I think it's a great idea if the admins are willing to support it, and providing that some of the attorneys out there are willing to volunteer. Absent that, it might help to have in general a sticky thread on the skinners board with links to information on copyright and other IP rights, and maybe links to legal forums where they could seek advice.

Well threads about IP rights have come and gone what we need is some attorneys to "step up to the plate" and donate some of their valuable knowledge. Any takers?