please remove

There are certain people who have a talent for bringing themselves to the admins'' attention with facile comments....this ''LoverOfPoo'' is not one of them.

The problem with relying on time-stamps to validate the legitimacy of a person''s opinion is that there is nothing to say that a person did not DL several skins at once....then later comment on each systematically.

This person has suggested reasons for an opinion.....suggested improvements [alleged]...whereas others...the ones who ''I like to watch'' simply post such brilliance as ''this sucks donkey''s balls''...and moves on.

Legitimate criticism whether agreed with or not is not grounds for a post''s removal.  Posting works publicly invites comment, both positive and negative.  If this is deemed unconscionable then the only real solution is to keep the works off the web.

 

 

What I''d like to see as a ''solution'' to ''uninformed comment'' is to have an option to restrict who can post comment on one''s works to ''peers'' only.....in other words....if you are not a fellow skinner you can be excluded from commenting.   Those who are interested in the ''layman''s'' opinion can leave the limitation unchecked...

Very interesting. I checked LoverOFPoo''s library too. It is also very interesting as well(Like umm Blank, or non-existent). I would like to see an admin''s comment. And, I can''t wait to see the awesome stuff that LoverOFPoo uploads(whenever and if ever that happens), and the comments on them.

disgusting by Citizen LoverOFPoo - 4/23/2004 5:58:17 PM

Very very bad.disasterous by Citizen LoverOFPoo - 4/23/2004 5:45:57 PM

Jafo, these comments are not constructive.

This skin is an embarrassment to windowblinds and the human race in general.

Is this a legitimate comment for a windowblinds skin? Hmm.

Some good points Jafo.

However, He did comment on a wallpaper of mine that he couldn''t have downloaded because It''s not posted.

Yeah the truth sucks and I can handle it but I just felt that he was being out of line. Its good to know that some sort of system may be in the works.

I would be the first to say keep the comments up. Free speech is critical, however we can still tar and feather in this day and age can''t we?

If you filter out all the crap (pun intended ) the LoverOFPoo has dumped in the form of nuggets of wisdom in his own mind, it would seem there are a few things to be worked on .

/me performs a courtesy flush

Along with the foul odors that emit in some of the comments you get, how much value are the ones that just say "Ooooh Nice Skin", "I Luv, Luv, Luv it", "Goes great with my Cat Whisker''s eyes", etc. Sometimes those are just the same thing with a big ole can of lysol included Take value in the opinions of opined/opinionated??? you trust and filter through the muck of the rest to find the things you may want to fix.

Interestingly...I looked at all your work''s comments...and did delete one....''nobrain2002'' was derogatory...and another mark was added to a certain person''s CV....[no names please]...

Thanks jafo that wasn''t my intention for this post. That didnt bother me. I didnt help matters with my comment anyways.

Good point about the positive comments not being constructive essencay. They are constructive to the community though. Picture someone new finding the site and seeing the boards riddled with back and forth negativity. Alot of people would run away. If they see all happy faces and cheer then they will send in their money.

What is always an educational experience is to become a member of a number of alternate sites...and upload the same works to them....and compare notes with regards to the comment ''quality'' received on each.

Several sites are known for being the ''schools of hard knocks'' as no holds are barred when it comes to commenting.

They tend to put the comparative ''calm'' of Wincustomize into perspective.

By and large, the majority of comments here fall into the ''good'' category, rather than the ''I am a 1337 twerp who likes to push people''s buttons'' category...

Some positive comments can be constructive, the ones that go into detail about what works well, colors, etc.....same as some not so positive, though I''d get a bit ticked about someone saying my work was disgusting and nothing else

Constructive criticism and destructive criticism are 2 different things. There are 3-4 on here who only display the destructive. LoverofPoo is not the only one.

i dont think there was anything constructive about that, from what i see here. was he posting on other skins as well? why the need to keep going back over and over again and say the same things? he was antagonizing and looking for return comments

In my opinion, LoverOFPoo''s comments are in most cases excessively harsh, however, he does in some cases make an attempt to at least justify his criticism, and in a few cases has even offered fairly specific advice. He could probably use some lessons in tact, and will probably not win many friends here with his approach, but given what I''ve seen of his posts here, I would defend his right to post his opinion.

I''m not saying I like or agree with what he said, and I definitely dislike the manner in which he chose to say it, but I do think he has a right to express his opinion.

Without trying to hijack NT2K''s thread, I have been wondering for a while now how much "constructive criticism" one should really post in the skin comments area. When one finds an obviously broken skin, I think people should bring it to the artist/author''s attention, even publicly, so that the he/she has an opportunity to fix it quickly.

My question is about those skins which have several minor errors or oversights which don''t prevent the skin from working, but are either annoying or simply unattractive. I think most of you who have posted here know the type of thing I mean - margin problems, misalignments, missing graphics, etc. Should one post a list of those things in the skin comments, or would it be better to try to contact the artist privately, or would it be better to say nothing at all?

ChasUGC also made a comment above concerning LoverOFPoo''s non-existent library. I have also, for various reasons, yet to upload anything here, although I honestly do hope to do so soon. Should I refrain from posting honest criticism until I do so? I''m not trolling here, I really would like some honest opinions on these questions, and I apologize if this is hijacking NT2K''s thread. I think it''s related, but if not I''ll post another thread.

Shameless....being a site member means you can post comment...but it''s always going to be human nature to attempt to qualify a person''s ''expertise'' by reference to the person''s library.....particularly if their reputation does not precede them.

This is my argument for perhaps having a ''peer-only'' option for comments.

Let''s face it.....a comment from the likes of treetog and Alexandrie regarding the ''quality'' of a WB skin will always hold more weight than a similar comment from a total unknown or non-skinner.

Why?

Because they know their craft, whereas the unknown or novice is a total unknown quantity.

People like FrogBoy...or Neil Banfield for that matter have a far deeper understanding of what makes up a WB skin in particular....and the veteran skinners who have been ''at it'' for many years will have an educated [or even professional] eye to a skin''s failings.

So....if Frogboy were to say ''this isn''t bad''....it''d hold far more weight [at least to me] than ''wow this is fantastic'' from the newest kid on the block [it may have been the first skin he had even seen]....

BTW Jafo, I did upload my stuff at other sites expecting a whole lot worse than I see here. Comments on other sites whether they be good or bad apppear to be a myth. Comments from the authors that you mentioned are the most important. Even if they have something bad to say they say it with class.

I just want to emphasize one last time. I can handle whatever someone has to say. Some people will be pleased and others will be horrified. Its part of the game. Its just when I see stuff like what LoverofPoo did, it kinda feels like a drive by shooting. I didn''t post for only my own interest. I honestly believe that it is harmful to the morale of the community. Like Mgiff said its not constructive, but destructive.

Shameless, your are right about him having the right to post. I can''t argue that. You also said he could use some lessons in tact. That is kinda my reason for making this post. I wanted to hear anyones voice. If noone says anything, he will just keep doing it. I didnt want to "report" him to admin. I just wanted to express my feelings.

Plus the boards were getting boring.

Jafo, I agree with you completely that one should consider the source when reading the comments of others on your work. That is the reason, at least in part, why I asked the question. I did not mean it to sound as a criticism of anyone or anything.

Let me give an example. If I were to comment on a WB skin and say the following,

"I really like the overall theme of your skin and I especially like the contrast in textures in the StartPanel and Taskbar. The details are very crisp and clean. This is a very nice skin. I do think you should take a look at the following items, though:

1. The User Pane graphic appears to be clipped relative to the rest of the Start Panel elements, being abruptly shorter by one pixel on each end than the rest. It leaves a sharp corner on the top of the Programs and Places Panels respectively and disrupts the otherwise smooth lines of the Start Panel.

2. The Horizontal separators in the Programs List and Places List appear to be misaligned to the left in both areas. You might want to look at the relevant content margin settings, or adjust the graphic with some transparency to compensate.

3. There is a two pixel gap between all of your Titlebar Buttons which allows the Titlebar text to show in the gaps when the text is long or the window is resized smaller. You could fix this by modifying the horizontal alignment of your buttons, adjusting the content margins for the Titlebar text, or even adjusting the button graphics to cover that area.

4. The background images for the special folders, such as My Pictures, etc. are beautiful, but they are so dark that text that overlaps them can''t be read. Perhaps you might modify them to make them appear more transparent.

5. None of the items for the Vertical Taskbar appear to be skinned, and the default graphics really clash with your color scheme."

I didn''t just make these items up out of whole cloth. These are actual problems I''ve seen in some skins, and in fact, a few skins I''ve evaluated contain much longer lists like this. My question is, if I were to post comments like this on a skin, assuming those comments were all technically correct, how would they be received?
[Message Edited]

Should I refrain from posting honest criticism until I do so?

SD, do you call these comments honest criticism or just an attempt to insult/humiliate an artist who has probably spent a lot of time on his/her submission?

disgusting by Citizen LoverOFPoo - 4/23/2004 5:58:17 PM

Very very bad.disasterous by Citizen LoverOFPoo - 4/23/2004 5:45:57 PM

This skin is an embarrassment to windowblinds and the human race in general.

If you think these are honest criticism then please tell me what relationship the human race in general has with a windowblind skin. Remember, the skin in question was obviously created by an individual and not by the entire human race. The comment given was nothing more than an attempt to insult the artist in the worst manner possible.

And yes, I would like to see the works of people who can reasonably make such comments. And yes, I agree that Treetog or Alexandrie are artists who could reasonably make such honest comments. But, I don''t think their level of class would ever allow them to say such things to a fellow artist.

So, in closing, I would have to say yes. Yes, I think that if YOU were to go through the library and say things as the above, I would NOT consider them "honest criticism". I would consider them as something said by someone who has no regard for their fellow artist and someone who has NO CLASS whatsoever.

And, the fact that this person has no library shows that they probably have no intent to contribute or give honest criticism, only to hurt and deflame fellow artists who are trying to contribute and develop their artistic skills. I will always support and defend a fellow artist.

Shameless.....I agree with the list thing, but not in a post. On WB skins from two different artists I posted my opinion about the theme, colors, etc. of the skin and then offered to create a list, a detailed evaulation, as you did to help them fix those little errors that I noted and if they wanted the list to just email me and ask for it. One did, one didn''t. I also did the same for another artist who asked on the boards to have a skin looked over. If it''s only an item or two, I''d offer up what I noticed in a comment on the WB Skin.

Shameless Designs, please note. Your example was definitely constructive criticism and not what I am referring to by this other guy. Your example was definitely done WITH CLASS and meant to help the artist.

A few years ago, just about all the atrists had their email address in their profile. If I saw that much wrong with a blind, I emailed the list to them so they could make the corrections. That way 10,000 people didn''t have to see the comments. Now its somewhat different as most email addresses are hidden. Remember, no one is perfect, if they were they wouldn''t be doing this.

/me isn''t a skinner and my library is empty.

That doesn''t mean I don''t know what I''am talking about if I comment on a blind.

WOM , you, Old crab, old saphire, and a couple of others are great examples of people with class. I welcome anything you have to say. If you were to ever go off saying how ugly something was, I would still respect the fact that you have class and probably realize the skin really is disgusting.

Just cause someone''s library is empty doesn''t mean they dont have any talent. You have to be able to sacrifice the time to make something special.

I thank you NightTrain for those kind words, but I have the time. The wife doesn''t have the patience to teach me and I don''t have the patience to learn on my own.

a quote from a friend would fit here . "you can take a turd and put a hat on it and draw a happy face on it .. but its still just a turd"

The wife doesn't have the patience to teach me and I don't have the patience to learn on my own.

/me thinks WOM keeps evading the inevitable

I see that transcendence and lover of poo have gotten way out of hand with their latest posts. I see no point in letting it continue. Criticism comes with the territory but verbal abuse does not.

E-mail an Admin with the particulars so it can be dealt with...