Questions for Stardock about tech

from Stardock Forums
First the background to put my queries into a context.

I modified the tech tree in an attempt to create a pre-warp scenario. I left the GalCiv tech untouched but put in about 25 extra techs in a tree culminating in "Interstellar Colonisation" which I made the prerequisite tech for the basic techs on the standard GalCiv tech tree (ie those techs that normally have no prerequisite.

I found that every major and minor AI civ completely ignored my pre-warp techs and instead immediately cxommenced researching the techs on the standard GalCiv tech tree even though none of them had the prerequisite tech "Interstellar Colonisation". I numbered my pre-warp starting with 300 on up to 325.

O.K. I next tried deleting every single tech in the file except for my pre-warp techs. (I kept Universal Translator with tech pre-requisite removed so I could contact the AI to find out what it was researching). The Drengin were the only race who actually researched anything (they did just fine and researched all techs). No other major or minor researched any techs although the tech research graph clearly indicated that they were spending money on research. I ran several short games in small galaxies and the results were the same every time.

BTW I have previously experimented with adding techs to the tech tree and found the AI would usually not research those additional techs and usually rather late in the game. (I guess the Drengin eventually researched them and sold them). OTH In one game several races researched everything on the tech tree but I could not be sure whether or not they all started researching my added techs afterwards.

MY QUESTIONS

Do the races, other than the Drengin, have a fixed sequence of techs to research which they will research regardless of whether or not they have the prerequisite techs? All evidence available to me suggests this is so.

How do the Drengin select techs to research? What are the decision criteria for each selection? (By tech group, by improvements available, or some other means?)

Why does the AI build colony ships when I set a tech prerequisite for colony ships, a tech they have not researched? How can I stop them doing this?

We really need some information from Stardock about how the AI selects research projects. As things stand modding the techs without unbalancing the game is well nigh impossible.

Umh, pretty please with sugar on top. ;)

EDIT
My GalCiv version is straight out of the box, no patches or updates (no home internet connection) if that makes any difference.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Do the races, other than the Drengin, have a fixed sequence of techs to research which they will research regardless of whether or not they have the prerequisite techs? All evidence available to me suggests this is so.
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Some of them do, and some of them don't. The other races should have researched something though. All of them research things after finishing Final Frontier here, and the Arcean's tech list doesn't have anything after Final Frontier in it.

~SDC~
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
I just ran an experiment partly to see if there is a fixed research sequence and partly to see if i might have somehow stuffed up my custom tchs. I removed the prerequisite for universal translators (so i could immediately research to find out what everyone else was researching). I set up a game in a tiny galaxy at normal difficulty, researched translators, built scouts and contacted everyone ASAP.

The research sequence for all races, exept the Drengin, was the same up until at least universal translators. The altarians, arceans, torians, yor, alexians and Carinoids all researched in the exact same sequence.

I contacted every race every turn to find out their research sequence. I abandoned this experiment when one of them obtained universal translators (because they might then buy, exchange or extort techs).

I am hoping Stardock will give the entire research sequence. It was quite tedious finding out the first dozen or so when they can't even talk to one another.

OTH The above comment by Arturus Magi suggests there must have been some significant changes to AI research paths since the original version of Galiv. I have seen the AI research my custom techs after it reached final fronter but I don't know which ones did such research. I have seen the AI research one of my custom techs but so far as I know it has done this only once.
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
OTH The above comment by Arturus Magi suggests there must have been some significant changes to AI research paths since the original version of Galiv. I have seen the AI research my custom techs after it reached final fronter but I don't know which ones did such research. I have seen the AI research one of my custom techs but so far as I know it has done this only once.
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The Arceans specifically have a fixed tech list. The others use various alogarithims to pick the next tech, and all of them should recognize new techs that have an AI line. Some may notice it without them (the Arcean's post-completion alogarithim does), but others may not.

~SDC~
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Umh, that may be it "an AI line". Maybe I forgot to include that in my new techs. I shall check tonight. thankyou. :)
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Strange. I was under the impression that exactly the opposite situation existed, i.e. I though that both the Drengin and the Arceans had fixed tech trees (based on a couple of good players from the metaverse) and the rest of them used more generalized selection algorithms. This would be consistent with the fact that the Drengin and the Arceans are usually the toughtest races, since they are the ones that incorporate "expert" knowledge.

btw, there's an AI value in the tech tree data structure. If I remember correctly, the greater it is, the more the AI will value it. Did you use this during your experiments? Perhaps if you had them set to 0, the generalized selection algorithms of the other races would prvenet them from ever pursuing them. This could cause the behavior you described. Just an idea.

Back when I was fooling around with my mod, I tried a couple of tech tree ideas to see if I could get race specific ships. In the end, I came to the same conclusion you seem to have, that significant tech tree mods are not doable the way things are implemented now.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
To the initial point, the ai is thusly coded (some predefined lists), that it is impossible to change the tech tree. There is no modding it.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Thats stupid. It prevents from adding to the tech tree, and adding techs that would leed to new ships, and improvements. Really stupid. Hopefully they will fix it in the expansion pack.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
So far as I know only one race (Arceans) has a defined research path. Eventually, the AI does research everything so can add stuff at the top of the tech tree.

You can add stuff lower down the tech tree but I have not yet figured out to get the AI to give a high priority to a particular tech. Someone will research it in their own sweet time. The workaround is to not add techs that are really valuable because the AI will take its time getting around to that tech whereas the human would research it immediately. Put any really valuable new improvements or ships into an existing tech, put only frills in custom techs. Bear in mind that any new techs will disadvantage the Arceans because of their defined research path but on the other hand other civs will research so the Arceans can get it but there may be substantial delay (and when a minor gets it the Arceans may extort it).

Putting a high AI value on a tech definitely seems to bring forward AI research of that tech however I have not yet figured out how to "fine tune" custom techs to induce the AI to do the research when I want them to. (The "AI value" is essential). I reckon it can be done (apart from for the Arceans though) but more understanding of AI research project selection is needed. (Maybe some more fooling around with tech modding will yield that extra understanding?).

EDIT
A small point. I suspect that if you assign a very high tech value to a custom tech then the Arceans may have difficulty extorting it from a minor.
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